oreoremix42

I have recently talked to someone who said switching from normal convential oil to a synthetic would be bad for my engine? I am currently at 30k mileage. Do you think it would be bad? Who else has done it and at what mileage? Should I take it to the dealer? That way I can pin it on them if any problems?

Greg S

iTrader: (1)

At 30K you should be fine, not enough gunk built up to cause any problems when it clears out. Now if you do it at 80K like I did with my Odyssey then you can have leaking seal problems.

oreoremix42

HAHA oh boy, how much did that cost you to fix?

Do you think I should have the dealer do it? I have to go in for my maintenence soon.

AAG

iTrader: (1)

You can switch from conventional to synthetic and back at any point. Anyone who tells you different is full of ****. I've personally done it with no issues on the xb2. You can switch to synthetic at your first oil change if you wanted to. www.bobistheoilguy.com

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

At your mileage its fine. What can happen is, conventional oil sludge is cleaned off at higher mileage when someone starts using syn, and the seals have hardened and can cause oil leaks. Most of the time it's ok to break the engine in on conventional, then swap to syn.

Now, on the subject of Eneos, hell NO! It's a way overpriced Group III, and not worth the dough. Im a member of a subscription blog (costs money per year and has a NDA) by a guy in the oil industry and someone who is well respected on BITOG. Your best over the counter options are Mobil1 0w-20 or Pennzoil Ultimate 5w-20, and Mobil1 or Purolator filters.

oreoremix42

Thanks everyone for the info!!!

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

First I agree 100% about switching to syn. I switched to syn at 40k on a Dodge Dakota and never had any problems.

Second, since you appear to be interested in and knowledgable about oil, have you seen any actual evidence that Toyo changed any bearing clearances when they changed the oil spec from 5w30 to 0w20? I haven't found anything. DezodDon posted up some bearing specs from an older turbo engine spec'd for 20w50 and 5w30 spec'd TC 2AZ-FE bearing spec's. They were the same. Don even recommends 10w40 for boosted 2AZs.

I recently flushed out the low viscosity Toyo WS ATF and replaced it with standard viscosity Mobil One syn ATF. The only noticeable difference is that it shifts a little more firmly and the torque convertor hooks up better. Again I couldn't find anything to suggest that Toyo changed anything in the U241E when they changed the ATF spec. IMO the WS ATF is a big part of the reason our AT shifts are so "slushy". I've recently had a chance to drive a 2001 Corolla with 100k miles on it and it's AT filled with oem Dexron-II shifts like a AT should. Nice firm shifts with no "slushy" feel. IPT only uses Amsoil standard viscosity ATF in their built ATs, regardless of what Toyo recommended.

Until proven wrong I'm of the opinion that Toyo changed both the motor oil and ATF specs for improved fuel economy and emissions reasons only.

Ps; I know it's not entirely accurate to lump ATF into only 2 categories (standard and low viscosity) but excluding type-F, all the recent ATF formulations fit pretty neatly despite small viscosity variances between different spec's and manufacturers.

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

I was under the impression that the engine got more piston squirters at some point, but Ive not heard anything on bearing tolerances.

My oil analysis on the Hyundai 2.4L (calls for 5w-30 and 5w-20) on 0w-20 Mobil were gorgeous, and thats from Terry Dyson. I've not done one on the xB yet, but its coming. The 0w-20 oils are top quality fluid, and I see no reason why they cant handle a NA engine. The Mobil 0w-20 meets the Corvette Gm high perf oil spec.

Now on a FI car, I cant say either way, and in my opinion, can no one else. Only way to prove or disprove is with a professional oil analysis after running it in your setup. One reason Im running the Redline 0w-20 now, because it uses some of the best basestock you can buy.

On the WS, I cant say because of the NDA, but I will I'll continue to run it, and just change every 30K. It is not good for 100k, I dont care what they say.

TunerKid

You can switch as much as you want, at whatever mileage you want! I wouldnt recommend using synthetic after 100k if you havent been using! The reason being, and this will sound retarded but, synthetic oil has smaller molecules so its more prone to leaking! I know all of this because ive been to 2 different oil plants! Youll definately be fine switching though!

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Start from the beginning with syn. If you have a high mileage car, just use some High Mileage (which is a blend and will clean the engine but also has seal conditioners)

All my new vehicles in the last 10 years have had a couple of 3k mile break in changes, then full syn for the rest.

Mach-box

......Should I be running 10w40 for my boosted xB? This is news to me. I have an oil change soon and will be changing oil if thats correct.

Greg S

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't bother having the dealer do it, it's just an oil change.

The cost was bad but not horrible. Ended up with leaks on the rear main seal, oil pan, and later on the front seal. Since I had some other work to do at the time I was able to cut some of the costs down by combining the work. Also helps that Jason(scvscion) is my mechanic.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for your input. I agree that a good 0w20 full syn should be perfectly adequate for normal street use in a NA engine. I doubt you'll ever see it used in any race engine and I guess I'd rather have a little extra protection than an extra mpg so I'll stick with 5w30 and 10w30 full syn. Especially while running a journal bearing turbo.

What might a UOA tell me about 5w30 vs 0w20? Assuming both oils are the same quality, differing only in viscosity range, all I can imagine is additonal cold-start wear with thicker oil. However, I can't see that being a problem except in very cold climates.

Before changing WS for M1 syn I contacted IPT and M1 tech support. IPT said all they use is Amsoil std vicosity syn ATF and the guy at M1 said that although they can't officially endorse their multi-vehicle ATF as WS compatible, he didn't know of any reason not to use it. If I'm not mistaken M1 makes WS for Toyota NA so that might be a factor as well as the slightly thicker viscosity of M1. I'll see how it works out for me.



Machbox: I hope you're not running 0w20 with the turbo! DezodDon knows more than I do and likes 10w40 but I'd still go with 5w30 full syn considering where you live. I'm running 5w30 in the winter and 10w30 the rest of the year, right or wrong.

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Biggest thing is, a 5 or 10w-30 has a higher HTHS than a 0w-20, or 5w-20. It's been seen that a HTHS of 3 or more (30w), as opposed to one less than 3(20W) holds up better under punishment, and engine design.

Other than cold start wear, which is one of the big times you have wear, is that the lighter weight warm oil (20 vs 30), actually pumps faster therefore it picks up heat and carries it away faster. Faster flow across a hot surface will keep the surface cooler than slower flow, at least thats what the experts say.


Redline 0w-20 has a HTHS of 2.7, while their 5w-20 has a 3.3. I've thought about moving to it, because thats a 5w-20 that acts like 5w-30. Their 5w-30 has a HTHS of 3.8

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Here's ya a good example of how weight doesn't always matter:

Spec--RL0w20--RL5w20--RL5w30--Mobil5w30--Mobil10w30

HTHS--2.7--3.3--3.8--3.09--3.14
Noack--9--8--6--Mobil does not give it, but usually 8-10
Flashpoint--216--251--252--230--224 (Celsius)
Viscosity 40C--43--55--62--65--62
Viscosity 100C--8.2--9.1--10.6--11.3--10.0
Viscosity index--166--145--162--169--147

Redline's 5w20 is superior to Mobil's 5w30 and 10w30 in almost every way.

Now their 5w-40 has a HTHS of 4.6!! A NOACK Volatility of 6 and a Viscosity Index of 170. My whole point to this junk is, don't necessarily look at oil weights, but their specs.

HTHS over 3 is good for abuse, 3.3 or higher is better

NOACK (lower is better) - determines the evaporation loss of lubricants in high-temperature service. The more motor oils vaporize, the thicker and heavier they become, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy and increased oil consumption, wear and emissions.

Viscosity Index - Lower number here means that as you drive it harder, it'll thin out more with heat. Higher number better

Finally, yeah you wanna make sure your 100C number is in your 30w range, but that varies. Thicker the better, in your case, maybe. Thats where the oil comparos come in.

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Hey Fred, I did some more reading, and I don't doubt you on FI and 40wt. You really should look at the Redline 5w-40
API Service Class
SM/SG/CF/CJ-4/CI-4
Viscosity Grade SAE 5W40

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 15.1
Vis @ 40°C, cSt 94
Viscosity Index 170
Flash Point, °C 250
NOACK Evaporation Loss, 6
HTHS Vis, cP @150°C, ASTM D4741 4.6

It kicks the crap outta the Mobil 40w specs.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Well, if I were typically any lighter on the throttle, I'd probably get a ticket for holding up traffic at lights. I'm presuming Mobil One 5W-20 is fine for my N/A engine. Cost IS a factor!

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Haha, you have nothing to worry with 0w-20 or 5w-20 Mobil.

FI cars need the hvy-weight-when-warm-oil, and I'm talking to folks now about oil recommendations. Now that Im modding, and have moved from 2000-2500 rpms shift to 3000-3500 rpm shifts normally i may need to change ;)

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I didn't know that, thanks. However on the flip side, a higher HTHS provides a greater BOFT to protect against metal to metal contact. I think Amsoil says it best, "too thin is bad, too thick is bad". The tricky part is finding which oil best suits your particular application. In which case, it's probably best to stick with what the OEM recommends. Since TRD recommends 5w30 for a 08 XB with a supercharger, I'll go with that. But since my hot-running turbo is oil-lubed and cooled whereas the SC has it's own oil, I think it might be prudent to go a little heavier in summer(10w30). I've never really liked 10w40 ever since GM stopped recommending it because it broke down too quickly due to the level of additives required to acheive such a wide viscosity range.

Good point about fluid flow rates and heat absorbtion/dissipation. However, a fluid can also move too fast for optimal heat transfer. One example would be removing your thermostat. Removing that flow restriction can actually lead to overheating if the coolant passes too quickly to acheive optimal heat absorbtion in the engine and dissipation in the radiator (oil pan). Again we're back to the too thin vs too thick vs just right dilema.

M1 10w30 has a HTHS of 3.14 and 5w30 is 3.09. With any luck, it will be "just right" for my application. The best I can do is make educated guesses...

Good dialog man. I learned some things from it.

elwaylite

iTrader: (1)

Haha, we are oil nerds! Its all part of the performance process, and the stuff just interests the heck outta me!