Hypnotik_xB

There are plenty of forums of other DI turbo cars that are making big power....MS3, BMW3series, Pontiac Solstice and Cobalts...just to name a few. There is nothing holding back these cars. They might cost more to mod but the potential is there with the right tuning.


ScionFred, thats more than I thought there was.

XD40tC

Maybe he means in the 800hp+ range. DI does just fine for those cars in the 400+whp range.

FromTheOld

This is exactly what I mean. I'm talking about big #'s.

I already know some DI cars that make good power, but you said it yourself, it costs more to mod them, which to me, hurts potential in an indirect way (because the owner potentially may not be able to afford to modify it)

coryjames

go on the mazda speed forums anyone who made big power anything over 400 blew the motor shortly later just not worth the hassle

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Just a FYI for anyone needing longer exhaust manifold studs. Ours are M8x1.25x30mm (I think, not 100% sure about the overall length). I bought 10 grade 8 M8x1.25x35mm studs from NutsandBolts.com for $20 shipped. Dezod sells 5 SS ARP studs with washers and nuts for $60 and Summit Racing has a large selection of SS ARP studs including a 10 pack of 35mm for ~$100. The oem studs are too short for a 1/2" manifold flange.

As for Mazda's blowing up at over 400whp, I wonder how long a stock 2AZ would last with 400+whp?

Hey Cory, what was your 1/4 mile time again? I remember seeing it posted before but forgot the details.

coryjames

I was talking built motor speeds just no one to tune it

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

All I know is that there are a lot of much faster, much better handling cars with much more potential out there for about the same cost as a properly boosted and modded XB with any chance of surviving DD for 50K miles or more. Not to hate on the XB but it's an econobox, not even a sport compact.

Chevy Camaro V6 (305hp)
HHR SS (260hp)
Cobalt SS (260hp)
Lancer Raliart(270hp)
Subaru WRX (265hp)
VW GTI (200hp)
VW GLI (200hp)
Volvo C30 (216hp)
Mazda 6 s Sport (270hp)
Speed 3 (265hp)
Civic Si (200hp)
Mini S (172hp)
Mini Clubman S (172hp)
Caliber SRT4 (300hp)

What did I miss?

Steve60

"anyone who made big power anything over 400 blew the motor shortly later "
Anyone? That's a big group of people.

400whp 2az - that would bring the cost up a few bucks to the base XB, not to mention everything else you need to controll 400whp...... DD, I think not

Fred, can't wait to see your project done.

XD40tC

As with any other car, tuning becomes the last big challenge as the tuners and software/hardware developers gradually unlock the ECU. My goal and Im sure Scion Fred's goal isnt for something with 400+whp on a built motor. If these motors cant hold up or the engine management products currently available arent up to par for those limits then thats perfectly fine with me as I wouldnt want my daily driver to have that much power anyway. Most of us would be pretty happy with 300whp with a car that has already 200-250whp stock. Even with a piggyback tune or reflash that car will still be very reliable throughout the years. Our box on the other hand will take more of a beating with its 135whp stock motor being pushed to 300whp. Even after a build you'll need a super expensive standalone unit in order for it to be reliable at higher HP numbers. Its just not made for it and to me not worth the hassle. If you have the money and are intent on it then go ahead but to me a car originially designed for it is MORE worth the hassle. And naturally, aftermarket manufacturers will create more parts for those vehicles than ours performance wise. Its sad because I see this 450whp STi at meets with a built motor and Cosworth this and that and the guy doesnt even track it or give people rides in it. Its like he did it for nothing or maybe hes waiting on standalone engine management (which he already may have). Oh and hes definitely not on his first built motor...
I love my box but Ive come to realize its not worth spending big money on unless I guess you like expensive wheels and audio and whatnot. I like performance cars so I will save up and spend my money on one that catches my eye in a year or two. I will just tinker with the box for now and get the suspension setup as it should have been in the first place. I still want to AutoX because its lots of fun regardless of what car you have.

coryjames

yes i would kill for a new or old sti. wish i would have got it not the box the sti wasnt out and i was tired of waiting. the box can bash with the best if modded right. i want the chance to race my friends car his car ran what mine did in the quarter his a speed3 with intake exhaust new top mount and a flash my car was on a stock motor and 3.6 psi

Hypnotik_xB

Your description of big power is just crazy and you don't find many streetable 800whp fwd cars around. It cost more because you have to tune it right and not short cut with FPR or other solutions that don't give absolute tuning options. Highly modified turbo cars don't cost anymore then a properly done turbo car.


This would have been true when the MS3/6 first came out but not now there are a few tuning solutions.


Yeah the "anyone" is not correct. There were some that blew the motor and most were from no tuning solution, with a tuning solution and no tune/bad tune.


I like turboing and tuning cars like the xB. I just don't like the way factory turbo cars are. It is almost always alot cheaper to modify a stock N/A car for big power and great handling then it is to start with a factory turbo performance car....IMO
You have to do a big turbo upgrade which cost as much if not more than some turbo kits for other cars. You have to sometimes build up the motor in these cars to be reliable. And you have to change up the suspension to make them better as there is always room for improvement with the stock set-ups. Now if you are just going for dyno numbers then this doesn't apply.

I went from a turbo Mazda3 to a MS3 and still regret getting rid of the Mazda3 to this day. I wasn't impressed with the MS3 at all. And since I'm not too much into racing I'd even take a turbo xB making 275whp over a MS3.

Tuning is almost always the key to a reliable and powerful turbo car.

XD40tC

Perhaps you would reconsider after driving my gf's 275whp MS3 lol. That thing is a beast! I do like the way my xB "feels" though compared to her car. It would be nice if our cars were boosted.

coryjames

how bout a ride in my 340ft pound xb lol you would never want a speed after that lol ms3 is a good car if you leave it stock and its enough for you as is there are other more mod friendly cars like a subie loll not a fan of speed3s lol

XD40tC

Yeah I want an STi... them b*tches is cheap now! Not the new ones... lol

coryjames

there is this guy selling this supra7 i am thinking about it real hard but i might i dont know i want it like bad lol

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I got my new mani yesterday. I ordered the Godspeed clone and they sent me the Treadstone clone instead. When I emailed them they replied that they ran out of the Godspeed mani's. Now I have to decide whether to keep it or return it and get the Godspeed elsewhere. I'm not sure if either will allow me to keep my internal WG but the Godspeed gives me an extra inch for the DP and my WG flapper housing is ~2" long. I'm hoping to re-use my 2.5" DP by shortening it and adding a 4" flex section.

If anyone is running the Treadstone mani, I'd really appreciate any input on DP to coolant hose clearance. In Homerhitta's install pics it looks pretty close w/o the WG housing. I could get a 5-bolt DP plate, effectively blocking the int WG port and have a 2.5" v-band welded to it but then I have to get a dump tube welded into my DP and a ext WG that is overkill for my 200whp project. The int WG worked fine and is a very reliable design.

BTW, if anyone is looking for some sweet copper gaskets, SCE has them for very reasonable prices. Dezod is the only source I've found for a copper 2AZ-FE mani gasket. FYI, copper gaskets seal flat surfaces very well and are reusable. Just heat-anneal them for re-use.

homerhitta

i'm working on those pics for your scionfred

I just wanna throw this out there, after reading all that fromtheold has to say i just have to chuckle. There is nothing more fun then pulling away from somebody at 55mph like they were stopped. I have a blast hitting that accelerator. 300 whp is more than enough and i gotta say, the car overall handles pretty nicely. My cousin has a 2008 STI and a boosted TC which makes 291 whp (my car makes about 292 whp haha) and he always introduces the sti as his slow car. I've driven the STI too, and yea its a fun car to drive, but it has NOTHING after about 60mph.

I say after a few suspension mods my car will have cost me around 25k and outperforming cars more than double the price, i'm pretty happy.

coryjames

ran the car here sunday got a 14.56 on a whoping 3.6 pounds i was faster then stock srt4s new and old stock stis new gto and new mustangs and im all of 240 whp so yeah the xb has more potention that any one though just llike the tc when i put on my new clutch again i will show the true potential

and i talked to a kid on myspace with this kit he has the fic and 750 injectors he has been on it for 3 months and hasnt cracked it i told him to be carefull

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, when you get a chance, the pics will be appreciated. I searched your entire build thread and found several good pics but not quite enough to judge the spacial relationship between the turbine housing/DP and the PS coolant hose or the compressor and the DS coolant hose.

I agree with you 100%... 300whp/tq is more than enough for a street driven FWD car. Personally, I wouldn't want a FWD DD with more power than that. I'm still only interested in 200-250whp/tq with my slush-box XB. I'm sure Cory's car is a blast in between failures but I have no desire for 350whp and the obligatory frequent-tow package AAA membership.

My only reservation about continuing with my boost project from this point is the financial folly of it. I'm $2500 in and may need another $2000 to get it right. I could spend $25k on a Cobalt SS, etc. and get the same performance with a factory warranty and resale/trade-in value comensurate with the purchase cost. Investing $5k in my XB means voiding the warranty with zero increase in value. The practical thing for me to do would be to return the car to stock, sell off all the parts I've bought for 50 cents on the dollar, accept the loss and trade it in on something that does what I want the XB to do.

OTOH, being financially responsible and practical ain't much fun and factory performance cars are a dime-a-dozen. I'm currently straddling the fence and leaning towards the irresponsible side...

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

WTF was driving those other cars? I ran 14.7 with my 225bhp, 3500lb 87 Mustang GT. All of those cars should have been faster than you.