NyoroBox

congrats! you should get some nice tunes now!

btw, thats a long ___ oil line

FromTheOld

Congratulations. Good luck with everything, hope it lasts long (sincerely). Don't go too crazy until you get it tuned. It's good that kevin seems to be listening to you though. Better customer service than the rumors say.

rosedaleny806

looks like a pretty nice kit i like the SMIC

homerhitta

Nicely done! Get that thing tuned soon! Very important. Ps I might be moving down to the md dc area so we'll have to meet up if I wind up going

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks!

Where would I put the MAF and the bypass?

I might keep it but I was thinking that having a crank damper might be a good idea on a FI engine. Also, with a turbo, underdriving the water pump might not be such a good idea either. I'm not sure how much it matters but I'm thinking about these things.


Thanks. I'd like to add to/clarify my previous comments about driveability. I just drove over 200 miles and noticed some things I hadn't before. While the ECU is able to trim the larger injectors very well in closed loop, in open loop the AFR can get way too rich. For instance, on a long uphill grade at highway speeds (65-75mph), the ECU will go into OL and without any boost, the AFR drops to or below 10:1. Although I didn't notice any problems running so rich, it's not good. All that extra fuel could do damage over time. At WOT in boost the AFR is ~11.5:1 which is okay but I don't like seeing it any richer than that.

IMO, the cheapest way to boost with this kit would be to use a supplemental fuel pump with a rising rate FPR and stock injectors or possibly 370cc. That would limit the boost to ~5-7psi (best guess) but avoid the overly rich AFRs I'm seeing with 440cc injectors. Since this is a "boost on a budget" experiment, I have one more old school trick to try before resigning myself to adding a FIC. Before installing the kit I was worried about lean AFRs and considered adding a variable resistor to the IAT and/or cooant temp sensor to richen the AFR. Now I'm contemplating adding a VR to the MAF to lean out the OL AFR a little. Assuming that my richest AFR is 10:1 and WOT is 11.5:1, if I can lean that out to 11:1 and 12.5:1, it should work. After I add water injection, I could lean it out a little more. I'd feel safe at 13:1 with W/M injection.

Sure, a FIC or E-Ultimate would be much better and allow for some serious fine tuning but I think it might be fun to see what's possible with some cheap sensor tricks while I wait on a PnP FIC harness.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

Thanks! Tunes? Who needs tunes when you have the sweet sound of a turbo? I just got my 12" oil line today.

Thanks (sincerely). I hope it lasts a long time too. Kevin's been great to deal with but I probably should mention that instructions and tech support are not included with this kit.

Thanks. The SMIC is my favorite part of this kit. I also like the BPV design. It's a real sleeper.

I really hope I'm not underestimating the importance of a tune but at 5-6psi with boosted AFRs ranging from 11:1 to 11.5:1 and 93 pump, is it really that essential? Sorry to hear that you might be moving to the wrong side of the Mason Dixon Line but I made the same mistake 20 years ago and it turned out okay. Shoot me a pm when you're in town.

FromTheOld

Fuel is only half the equation. Timing is important too. With some 3rd Generation Supras, when going turbo on an N/A engine, retarding the timing was a temporary method of keeping things "safe". I would know, since I've been in this situation before

homerhitta

fromtheold is right. that's probably the largest benefit from a good tune for you, especially since like you said your afr's are pretty decent. plus if you throw it on a dyno we can see what just above $2k will get you

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

True about the timing. I was hoping that going from 87 to 93 octane with <6psi boost and rich AFRs would be safe until I get water/meth injection installed. With WMI I don't anticipate having to pull any timing. I've never heard even the slightest ping from my engine but I suppose I should at least pull a plug and inspect it.

huslindan

thats a tiny smic lol never seen a ic that small before

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I agree with you guys in theory and principal but I'm not yet convinced that it's absolutely necessary to retard the timing for this application. It's probably risky to rely solely on the 87 to 93 octane jump, the ecu and knock sensors but I think that water/meth injection will do the trick. Here's a great link for WMI and some good info:

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

1. Maximum Torque occurs at a 13.2:1 Air Fuel Ratio.
2. Transitional Fueling and Maximum Boost Air Fuel Ratios are about 12.5:1.
3. Water Injection is most efficient with a 50/50 water alcohol (or methanol) mixture.
4. Methanol, as an additive, is not a practical choice as it is prone to pre-ignition in higher than 50/50 percentages, is not safe to handle, and is not readily available. It's a good choice, but not necessarily the most practical one when you need some in a hurry. Methanol is usually found where racing fuels are sold.
5. Denatured (ethanol) alcohol, typically 95% pure, is available in paint, hardware, and Home Depot type stores in gallon containers for about $10.00. Expensive but available everywhere. Isopropyl alcohol can be used but it is often 30% or more water by content.
6. Water Injection allows ignition timing to be more aggressive or closer to stock. In other words boost does not automatically mean retard your timing.
7. Excessive amounts of ignition retard will cause a loss of power and overheating.

You've never seen the tiny IC's on factory turbocharged cars or the Descendant Racing XB kit? If I can fit one, I plan to install a fan on it and add WMI to get intake air temps much lower than I'd get with a huge FMIC.

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

BTW, now that I fixed my BOV problem, I'll try to get on a dyno in the next week. I removed the lighter of the 2 springs and fixed a small vacuum leak in the type S BOV and it works great now.

coryjames

turn boost up till your afrs are right lol

XD40tC

Lol yeah thats a way to fix it hehe

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

I'm only running 4psi now. I'd love to turn it up to 6-7psi but I think it best to wait until I get the WMI installed or pull some timing. I have a 150psi single stage solenoid activated 150cc kit in the mail and plan to activate it at 3psi.

Removing that spring is what the Evo guys do with the real Greddy Type S. With both springs installed, it's so stiff I can barely push the valve open 1/2".

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

This is very interesting.



TurboToyotas 34/M
Mesa Arizona
SL Member

Posted: 8/29/08 10:55PM Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Most of what these guys are saying is true...

dont cut corners....for 98% of the people on this board.

I have customers who buy the correct fuel management, install the kit, think they can install the fuel stuff later....blow there motor and its my fault.....but....

You can use the REFLASH and the injectors(410-440cc) and a small wheel T3/T4 (or a GT28rs for convos sake) at no more than 5 psi and have an awesome tune/powerband.

It actually works well on the stock ecu as well..just dont boost more than 5psi.

I have a car here in AZ thats been running now for almost 2 years on the stock ecu and 440cc injectors at 5psi on a GT28RS and it runs like stock and is a blast to drive.

I dont like promoting it...but it does work and so to answer your question....YES

Regards-

Todd
_________________
TT is back................

XD40tC

Thats cool beans. Go get that reflash and come back with some A/FR's!

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

At the risk of sounding wishy-washy, I'm having second thoughts about the reflash. My car runs so good on the stock ecu, I don't want to mess it up. I really believe that water/meth injection will negate any need for any timing retard at <7psi and I don't know what the reflash might do to my AFRs. I'm very happy where I'm at now with 5psi and although I'm sure I could get more power with a good tune, my goal is still only 200whp, good driveability, reliability and it feels like I've got that. Dyno time...

BTW, although the car runs great, I still need to solve the P0101 code problem for future emissions testing. Soooo... it's still not perfect... yet. I'm looking at various ways to mod the MAF and/or MAP to clear that code but at the same time I don't want to richen my open loop AFRs so... still working on it.

FromTheOld

Scan Gauge can turn off codes.

Steve60

Still have a 101. There's something else going on . The MAP sensor is only reading the air volume. I can't see any reason for a 101. If I lived near by I'd try my MAP, just to rule it out. It could be something as simple as the location...... I saw rich, lean & out of range, all on a test drive in a friends car, it turned out to be a lose intake manifold.

The IC is quite nice. The end tanks are built for good flow & the location is very good. You could put a big front mount on but bigger means loss of boost. The component placement in this kit look well thought out ( I just looked at your install a few minutes ago ).

The OE ECU doesn't get as much credit as it should. The Power Enterprise SC kit for the gen 1 XB has no additional management, just a fuel pump & injectors. The fact is I have run my gen 1 with TC injectors w/ a Greddy blower without management, with no problems. And yes you go need to take it easy for a couple 100 miles to see any benefit..... but it's there. The blower has been on this car for 40k - should have been a dealer option with a clutch - a gen 1 OE clutch is not useable.

Any boosted engine is going to pull some ign out. The more power, the more heat. 2 events happen as the heat increases. Depending on the ECU parameters, it will dump more fuel, pull less timing or vise versa. Either way there will be more fuel & less timing, it's just how much of each = ECU parameters. If you are looking at around 11:6 at WOT you're safe. If the target boost is around 6psi you could go leaner to high 12's, these engines are designed to run lean, nothing like the days of old. Just keep an eye on the EGT- it's the end product of making power & the tell = how long your engine will last.