AJ_Gil

I recently bought a 2012 Scion XB with the base Pioneer sound system and IMHO the highs were terrible (annoyingly edgy) and the overall sound flat sounding. I'm a musician, have built a couple of recording studios and listen to almost all my music driving in the car ('60s-'70s Classic Rock, old R&B and some oldies).

I talked to the top audio builder / installer in the area and he said "forget the rear speakers and put your money in the fronts because that's what you'll listen to" so, I skipped the cheaper BA S60s and went with these BA SC60s which after reading a bunch of reviews seemed to strike a reasonable balance between cost and sound.



What an improvement these made! I've always been a Boston Acoustics fan for the warm sound and these didn't dissapoint. The highs are clear as a bell, a couple of acoustic guitar passages are soooo realistic and the real suprise was the bass. I was figuring to eventually add a sub when I saw that 55hz bass spec but no, the bass is smokin'! (I may still add the sub down the road but no hurries thanks to these).

I set the crossovers to -2db and it wouldn't hurt to go -4 for a perfect balance as the highs are a bit hot from this head unit. I have it set to "feel", bass to 0 and treble to -2 (that's why I suggest -4 on the crossovers to run the unit flat).
For those of us on a tight budget I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THESE!!!

KaneoheKoa

Boston's are great speakers, though I wish I could get my hands on a set of ADS 320i comps (I'm dating myself here). No finer, smoother speaker made IMHO.

AJ_Gil

Yeah, I set the crossovers to -4 this weekend. With the treble set to -1 and the head unit on "feel" I'm real happy with the sound now. The tweets are still a touch agressive but not annoying because the BA sound is very clean.

I got a really nice mid - bass boost from these speakers and am now seriously considering the matching rear components to match everything out.



I realize the XB isn't a big buck ride by any means but it kinda pi*ses me off that make suce a big deal promoting the "premimum" sound when it ain't........

B.T.W, I did stay away from the lower priced BA S60s because all the reviews had the tweets as too harsh. These are pretty cool :-)

2010SWxB

AJ,

Did you install these yourself? What is involved? I know you have to drill out rivets on the stock door speakers. Does the tweeter fit the stock tweeter location without modification? Thanks

AJ_Gil

I chickened out and had an installer do it.

Once I decided I wanted the crossover to -4 I took out the screw, lifted the armrest and saw they tie-wrapped the crossovers to the internal door wiring but I couldn't get to it from there. They offered to reset the crossovers for free so I just took it back.

I'll probably do the rear door speakers (and eventually the sub) myself.

I'm pretty sure the tweets fit in the existing space plus the SC60 box did have a couple of mounting rings and hardware so I would say it's doable if you want to go for it.

AJ_Gil

My wonderful wife just bought me the matching BA SC65s for the rear doors (link above).

I'll probably do the install myself since it looks like a simple switch-out.

I'll keep ya posted

2010SWxB

Thanks for the info. I plan on getting some of these soon. I'll keep an eye out for your update on the rear doors.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

FWIW -- The OE tweeters work very well and are not aggressive. I realize components are both sexy and in vogue, but replacing the door speakers doesn't require components, 6.5" coax full range can do well in both front and rear doors !

KaneoheKoa

AJ, you'll need to do a little woodwork to make mounting baffles to make the BA's fit in the rear door. Just some thin plywood (3/8" enough, painted to seal the wood). No need to be super neat, unless you want to or you take pics and post them here.

AJ_Gil

Trevor what year XB do you have? Perhaps they changed something in 2012 but the OM tweets are horrible. They have a very unpleasant, harsh sound with mild distortion that only gets worse when you turn the volume up. After switching out to the BAs I still hear a volume notch in the mid upper highs that causes one particular area of cymbal splashes to be overly loud (which is why I have the crossover at -4 and the treble now at -2, but it does sound great now ). I'd need a 30 band EQ to really tell everyone exactly where it is but I'm guessing it's a result of the electronics in the less than "premium" base head unit. I'm not one to bash anything but this system in my 2012 is flawed and again if they hadn't marketeted it so hard as an upgrade I'd say it's about what you'd expect from a "base" unit. Having it to do over I'd have gone for the upgraded unit.

S*it, I need to make mounts for the rears? One thing this house never had was a decent garage and my whole fix anything world has severely diminished to only the most basic tasks.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I've a 2008 with the base HU. However, harshness in the highs is usually the fault of the HU or the source, not the tweeter. The factory settings are designed to work with the limitations of the OE speakers and when the drivers are changed, those settings cease to work well. At that point, best sound usually results from a user defined profile (one of the available selections).

My sound was OK OE, but I didn't care for just OK, so my first step was to replace the door speakers since they were obviously limited. However, after that, none of the OE HU profiles sounded particularly good, so I switched to the user mode and made my own adjustments. The sound was then much better, but I was having trouble in the lower highs and upper midrange that wasn't there before, plus I could clearly hear the HU's natural opaque character and it was clear I needed an upgrade.

I picked up three alternative HU's one after the other, but none sounded very good and it was hard to tell them apart, which indicated a cabin resonance problem. After damping the door panels the lower high, upper midrange diffraction went away, the sonic images cleaned up, and I could finally hear what the HUs sounded like. Of the four, the Kenwood had the cleanest highs and most musical sonics (the others being the comparable Eclipse and Alpine, plus the OE). That made it the easy winner, but the highs were still a little more brittle than I wanted and so I went with the next level up of that same model which included select component upgrades for improved sonics. Sounded the easily best of the lot and I never found any indication the OE tweeters themselves were a problem. However, I've always found the sonics of digital audio to be problematic and auto electronics consistently exhibit degrees of harshness. When I switch to high quality home recorded metal tape via the aux input, the highs are just plain gorgeous (as is the rest of the spectrum), definitely no tweeter problem and likewise, the preamp and amp in the HU. Digital audio strikes again !

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I just checked the current tweeter part number and it appears to be the same as mine -- 86160‑68010. If you have them, you could take a look and verify, but I would wager all your OE drivers are the same as mine. The harshness is almost certainly the fault of some combination of source and HU.

OK, just verified it, the same tweeter has been in use from the beginning.

AJ_Gil

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that treble spike I'm hearing is in the HU. My audio guy said the OEM tweeter is pretty cheap plastic and whatever caused that spike that tweeter couldnt handle it and distorted. The spike is still there but the BA tweeter is sparkly clean so with the crossover set back it has a nice warm sound 99% of the time.

I mostly play MP3s I have on a 16 gig usb. I use the free MP3 Gain software to even out the levels http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/ so I can just hit random and let it go without having to fool with the volume. It's a cool program that doesn't affect the quality of the MP3s.

I also have been testing with CDs including the latest I produced for my band 49 FORD which was then professionally mastered and I know exactly how it sounds on my bi-amped Mackie studio monitors. If you want to check those out there are a few free downloads on the band site and also a link for the CD www.49ford.net

This afternoon I'm putting the rear BA SC65 coaxes in and as good as the fronts came out I hope for even more improvement, I'll keep yas posted.

I love these positive forum discussions. I continually learn from you guys and hopefully my posts will help others too.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

If the tweeter is fed distortion, its job is to reproduce it, and so if you could hear it, sounds like the tweeter was doing its job. Sounds to me like you need a better HU !

ScionFred

iTrader: (1)

This is probably not relevant here but if you ever disconnect your battery for any reason, make sure to reset the HU to "XB" mode. The default mode for the 08 HU is "TC" and sounds terrible in the XB.

AJ_Gil

Thanks guys, I'll check that reset.
IMHO that is not a quality tweeter, I can hear a huge difference with the BA components and the same HU.

AJ_Gil

Keeping the info going I replaced the rear door speakers yesterday with the BA SC65s and after spending a day (and evening) cruising around playing with settings I've come to the conclusion that if you can afford it replacing all the speakers is the way to go (looking at the OEM rears that came out boy do they look like cheapos). Using the links I posted and having them installed I'm still under $400.00 and the sound is amazing!

Replacing the fronts was a huge improvement but adding the rears just added even more to the overall clarity and definition. IMHO this is now a quality sounding system and adding a sub down the road will only make it better.

With the added clarity I ended up with the treble at -4, Bass at +1 with the overall sound set to "feel". I went through everything from oldies, acoustic through ZZ Top. The clarity is such that you can hear the sticks actually contact the cymbals even when they're back in the mix, hear the pick cross the strings on an acoustic guitar, the kick drums have punch and you can hear the bass good although again a sub is still needed to really catch the full lows.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Not saying the OE tweeter is "high" quality, but compared to everything else associated with the xB2 cabin sound, its performance is not only adequate but respectable -- hugely superior to the door speakers. From my own listening in my own car, it's the very last thing to be concerned about replacing because it in fact sounds darned good (as I said, high quality recorded analog through my Kenwood aux input is very satisfying with the OE tweeters). Upgrade everything else and damp the door panels before you get concerned about that tweeter. I've been engaged with audio all my life and high end home audio for a fair while and if the tweeter was a genuine problem, I would definitely have noticed by now.

PS. I installed a pair of 3.5" BA coaxes in my Eclipse dash, together with a pair of Alpine 6-1/2" coax in the doors (same as I have in the xB2) and Pioneer 6"x9" triax in the rear and the highs are truly excellent with quality home recorded analog, and perhaps somewhat superior to the xB2 OE tweeters (hard to be sure since it's a different acoustic environment and different Kenwood HU), but I'm not saying the BA tweeters don't improve on the OE, I'm just saying there is much more that should be done before becoming concerned about them.

EDIT: Spent some more time in the xB2 listening to three more well recorded CD's and hear absolutely no problems whatsoever in the mids or highs. There's no sign of coloration, resonance, or any kind of raggedness, just smooth and neutral. I don't know how their high frequency extension and power handling measure, but they're definitely meeting my needs.

Breaking Silence -- Janis Ian
Feels Like Home -- Norah Jones
Simply Deep -- Kelly Rowland

Note also that my listening is with full spectrum non-lossy material (both analog and CD) -- MP3 is less demanding due to musical information being discarded when shrinking it down. (How much discarded depending on how much it's shrunk.)

Earlier listening this week was with these CDs.

Ingenue -- K.D. Lang
Legend -- Bob Marley
Taj -- Taj Mahal
Suddenly -- Billy Ocean
Chicago -- Chicago
Reflections (live performance) -- Carly Simon
Spread Your Wings and Fly (live performance) -- Laura Nyro

To my ears, the OE tweeters are consistently honest in reproduction of the sound. Is there any loss of transparency to a "high" quality tweeter? If there is, it's certainly not obvious, and transparency depends first and foremost on the source and electronics.

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, all factory door speakers are cheapos (especially in budget cars), in my opinion, the only speakers Toyota actually cared about are the tweeters. They deliver 80% or more of the information to the front seat occupants. They're the ones that allow the base car to sound as good as it does -- and it doesn't sound bad with the factory presets (despite the mediocre electronics).

No wonder you don't have any money dude -- you keep paying others to do the work for you ! Congrats on the new speakers and yes, having good rears makes a definite difference. I recommend buying Edead damping material (modest cost, but effective) and living dangerously by installing it yourself !

AJ_Gil

Most of my tools got ripped off years ago and the rest I sold when we moved to FLA and into a small duplex. We have a house now but no garage and NO TOOLS......sux. A couple of years ago I had to pay to put a new head on my kids Honda etc. etc. Hopefully when I retire next year we will get a small house up in the country with a garage & tools because I d@mn sure won't be paying anyone to do anything then!