PDX_xB

I'm in need of some advice for upgrading the stock speakers, and adding an amp to my 2009 RS6.0 with the Pioneer AVIC 900BT head unit.

I already have a JL Audio 12w3v3-2 subwoofer that I'm building a custom enclosure for and will be powering with a Rockford Fosgate P300-1 (tested out at 419W into 2 ohms).

So, this post is seeking advice for cost effective upgrades to the rest of my audio system. I plan to do the installation myself. So, I'd like to keep it reasonably simple with no cutting of sheet metal, custom fiberglass, etc. I'll toss out a few ideas and ask for recommendations for alternatives in the same price range. I'd like to keep the total cost in the $500 range, divided approximately $200 for the front speakers, $100 (or less) for the rear speakers and $200 (more or less) for the amp.

Front Speakers - Polk Audio MM6501 - $199.99 from Sonic Electronix. These seem to be highly rated and a good value for the money, but I'm open to other alternatives that fit the stock location and cost about $200.

Rear Speakers - Polk Audio DB651 - $59.99, or Alpine SPS-600 $69.99 from Sonic Electronix. I'd like to upgrade the stock rear speakers, but don't really want to spend a lot of money here. I'd be willing to move up a little in price, but only for significantly better sound.

Amp - This is where I have the most questions/uncertainty. I'm assuming it will be a four channel amp, but should I get one with an active crossover to power the front components from the amp and then just drive the rear speakers with the head unit's built-in amp. Or, should I use the passive crossovers that come with the front speakers and drive the rear speakers with the amp. About the only amp I've looked at so far is the Elemental Designs NINe.4 - $165.00 from the manufacturer. There are a TON of options in amps. I'm looking for something that will give me the most bang for the buck when paired with the speakers mentioned above (or similar). Small physical size would also be nice as I'd like to keep this installation as stealth and stock looking as possible.

I'm not reallty up to speed on all the small, esoteric amp and speaker manufacturers. I know a lot of the mainstream brands, but am not married to any particular brand. So, all recommendations are welcome.

Thanks,
PDX_xB

PDX_xB

A few other possible 4-channel amps:

Profile AP740 - on closeout at Crutchfield for $110.49

Eclipse EA4200 - $149.99 at Crutchfield

Alpine MRP-F300 - $179.99 at Sonic Electronix

PDX_xB

shupes31

in regards to the amp, i'd say active crossovers to power the front speakers.

randomsuper

i'd say no on the polks. they get loud but sound too bright imo.

also, forget doing anything in the rear of the car. the speaker location is terrible and you're better off just spending more money on the front components.

PDX_xB

Most of the 4-channel amps I'm looking at have variable low pass/high pass crossover frequencies in the 50 - 500Hz range. Do I really want everything about 500Hz goring to my tweeters?

PDX_xB

PDX_xB

What do you recommend in a 6 1/2" or 6 3/4" component system that fits the 2nd gen xB front locations and costs around $200?

Sonic Electronix has the JL Audio XR-650 CSi for $199.99 and the C5-650 for $289.99. According to Crutchfield these don't fit the 2nd gen xB, but I'm not sure why (too deep? tweeter doesn't fit?). If I could get them installed, would either of these bet better than the Polks?

Other brands I should consider?

PDX_xB

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

I realize this doesn't answer your specific question, but since it's not clear to me exactly what you're trying to accomplish, I thought I'd throw it out there.

I wasn't satisfied with my 2008 xB2 base Pioneer system (didn't expect to be) and didn't really consider the factory upgrade since I doubted that would meet my preferences either. My solution was to install Pioneer SPS-17C2 speakers in the four doors with the HF drivers tilted up and slightly rearward to aim at the riders. I changed out the OE head unit for a Kenwood KDC-X792 with USB (supports iPod) and AUX inputs. I also installed eDead in all four doors, especially behind the inner panels to control resonances (without that, the sound is wrecked). With the addition of the eDead, I find the OE tweeters do a great job and work well with the upgraded speakers. I have the fader rolled just slightly towards the rear which gives a nicely greater sense of space.

The resulting sound quality is really excellent with CD, AUX and USB, with FM sounding pretty darned good (depends on the quality from the broadcast station as usual). I've more than enough volume available for my personal listening and entirely satisfactory bass for my purposes (4 x 6-1/2" cones with eDead). If I were going to make any change at all, it would probably be to add a single channel amp and subwoofer (though to be honest, I really don't feel the need -- some people are just less interested in powerful bass than others).

Just another way of looking at the sound issue !

randomsuper

http://cgi.ebay.com/CDT-AUDIO-CL-61A-25-PRO-NEW-CLASSIC-6-5-COMPONENT-SET_W0QQitemZ130353364929QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCar_Speakers?hash=item1e59aa7fc1

i love my cdt's. just don't use the supplied crossover. run it active off a 4 channel and you'll be amazed. that's the set up i have now and it sounds killer. by far the most sq oriented mids and highs i've ever owned. the tweet also fits absolutely perfect in the stock location. i'll post up a pic when i get a chance. just pop out the little grill in the sail and slip the cdt tweet in with the flush mount cup. the color even matches the interior.

for an amp, i have to recommend the mb quart dsc4125. sounds great and has tons of power. it's a little on the bulky side though. sounds significantly better than the rockford p400 it replaced and was much cheaper. just take it easy on the gain because it will blow pretty much any speaker up if you aren't careful.

http://cgi.ebay.com/MB-QUART-1000-Wa...item518b666625

ocotillo

I am wanting to upgrade my audio, but I am thinking of just upgrading the speakers. I am very unfamiliar with car audio- I just know the sound quality needs to be improved. Could you explain to me what you meant in the section I highlighted? Thanks.

randomsuper

when you use components, they come with a passive crossover. it basically tells the tweeter to play certain frequencies and the mid to play certain frequencies. when you run an active set up, you don't use the crossover. you use the amp and headunit and decide for yourself what will play what. the benefit is you can really suit the sound to what you like. the downside is if you aren't smart about what frequencies you direct to your speakers you'll be replacing them in a hurry.

it's really not that difficult to do and the end result is totally worth it. i went active very recently when one of my crossovers crapped out on me and i don't think i'll ever go back to using them again.

my explanation isn't the most technical in the world but it'll do. i'm sure one of the serious sq guys can chime in and give a much better definition that i did.

ocotillo

Your explanation was total spot on- I understood what you meant. Thanks.

In my application, I will probably never use an amp for the front speakers and do not f around with the stereo settings. I like to set it and leave it alone.

I also plan on keeping the base pioneer unit. I might add the vehicle specific bazooka sub/amp. Not a real basehead. I am looking at the Alpine 600 coaxials and 600c components. Any thought on the speakers?

Thanks for the help/suggestions/guidance- I got some Christmas cash burning a hole in my pocket.

xseveredveganx

You have learned well, young Jedi. :D

A tip, the MB Quart lower line's tweeters will not fit in the OEM location. I told my buddy to get some to try in his xB2, and the tweets are much too large for the OEM sail panel.

That set of CDT's is definitely a good deal.

Now, I personally am running a set of JL XR650CSi's ran passive (passive crossovers that came with the set). They're a great set, but I definitely feel that there is room for improvement. Albeit could be with amplification and running everything active, but I really want to try Hybrid Audio Technologies product.


I just don't have the bankroll.

randomsuper

if you're keeping the stock headunit, i'd get some tweets and mids from partsexpress.com. the only thing i don't know is what impedance the factory speakers run at in the front. if you can find that info just get some speakers with the same impedance, and a high sensitivity rating that don't need a lot of power. anywhere between 10-15 rms should do it. there's no point in getting high quality/expensive speakers when you aren't going to feed them a good signal or enough power to really get down and do what they do.

speaking from experience though, you're better off getting a better aftermarket headunit and leaving the stock speakers than switching out the speakers and keeping the stock headunit. i find it to be the weakest link in the entire factory stereo system. if you try it i think you'll be very surprised at the result.

ocotillo

Thanks for the info. Thought speakers were the way to go but I guess not. I read a lot of the forum info on this very topic. With the earlier posts, everyone said change the speakers- better bang for the buck. As the posts got newer, more people suggest changing the head unit. For someone like me, it is confusing. I wish I had the ability to change the speakers, keep the stock head unit and listen to the difference. Then change the unit, keep the stock speakers and listen to the difference. I like the functionality of the stock unit with the Ipod jack and its location. Where does everyone run the Ipod jack with the aftermarket head unit?

Again, thanks for all your help.

randomsuper

vegan - i gave up my noobness when it comes to car audio a long time ago but i've learned A LOT since i've been on roe. that forum has tons of useful info and enough knowledgeable posters to keep me interested and learning about something i've been into since i was a kid and got my first car. thanks to roe my system is going waaaaaay above and beyond anything i've ever had before. wait until i get everything set up. and check your pm's over there!

ocotillo - i've been where you're at. i wasted a lot of money doing things the wrong way. i'm speaking from experience, but it's my experience and everyone has their own idea of what sounds good so it's all relative.

that said, get a new headunit. the factory one sucks for sound quality.

xseveredveganx

I'll get that pic for you tomorrow. It's cold (like 16degrees) outside and I don't feel like going out there. Lol!
I just installed a lower end Eclipse navigation h/u (AVN20D) in my buddy's xB. Everything else is stock, and the sound quality is pretty decent.
If you like the OEM ingetration (which most do, I know I kind of miss it) then maybe look into the higher end premium Pioneer h/u. Granted, it's still a stock piece of equipment, it should be better than the base unit.
I personally have my iPod hookup ran close to the OEM location at the console. I've been wanting to fabricate a dock, but haven't had time nor motivation. It's easy enough to route the wiring through your glove box, or even inside the console itself, to deter would-be thieves.

And randomsuper, I can't wait to see how everything comes out for your setup! I still need a recone for my XXX... Thinking maybe taking a road trip to Fi when they return my email. Have them recone it for me. ^_^

PDX_xB

Good stuff. I've read some good reviews of the CDT speakers and the price is certainly reasonable.

Back to the amp and active crossover. So, you are running your CDT components off the 4-channels of the MB Quart amp, is that correct? And you're using the internal crossovers to split the frequency between the 6.5" driver and the tweeter. Do you know approximately what the crossover points are that you are using? The high pass filter of the MB Quart goes up to 1200 Hz, unlike many of the other amps I've looked at that stop at 500Hz.

Finally, like you said, it's bulky and really has more power than needed just to drive a single set of CDT 6.5" components. Is there a smaller, less powerful amp you would recommend that will take up less space, and still provide comparable flexibility and adequate power?

PDX_xB

randomsuper

i can't remember where i crossed everything over at. sorry.

try a rockford p400 if anything. it's a great amp that doesn't take up a lot of space. plus it'll match your p300. lol.

PDX_xB

That's one I've been looking at - that and the Eclipse EA4200 that Cruchfield has for $149.99 with free shipping. The Eclipse is even more compact and a nice looking amp, but the P400 would look sweet side-by-side with my P300.

PDX_xB

TrevorS

iTrader: (1)

Perhaps you didn't read my post or didn't take it seriously?

I suggest upgrading your speakers first, and installing panel damping second, if that's insufficient to meet your needs, then replace the head unit. On the other hand -- you can just spend money *****-nilly. Ultimately, it's your cash and enjoyment on the line -- you have to make these judgements, not the people responding to your topic.