a couple posts up someone said about how rough it is here in the metro detroit area... yeah it sucks- people have been brain washed by the "i work for an american company and drive american" blah blah. thing is the people here dont BUY american they lease them.

i think the only thing american car companies have going for them is the whole "buy american" thing. yet people dont think about that stuff when it comes to buying sony TV's, or suzuki motorcycles, or any of the clothes we wear....

 

i think that the problem with american cars is that they have given themselves a reputation and image of ____. added along with the overzealous mustang/camaro guys, american cars give off this feeling of _______s driving ____ty cars.

if the big three would stop bringing back old styles (ie thunderbird) and started designing asthetically pleasing cars then they could bring themselves out of this rut. basically what i am saying is: "big 3 take your head out of your ___ and sell the euro-spec cars in america!"

i think that many would agree that the euro-spec ford mondeo looks a lot better than the ford taurus.
http://img.netcarshow.com/Ford-Monde...llpaper_01.jpg
http://img.netcarshow.com/Ford-Tauru...llpaper_01.jpg

 

Taxing all folks who buy an SUV/truck is unfair though, unless folks who run businesses where they need those types of vehicles could write off a chunk of it. If you're a farmer and you actually need a truck I would not group you with the senseless dolts in urban areas who drive a huge gas-guzzling SUV to just carry themselves and possibly a child or two to and from school and/or work.

 

I think part of it is because they're trying to recapture a nostalgic sensibility of what America was, instead of looking ahead to what America could be.

Another part is because of the defensive mindset of many Americans - I need a big, safe vehicle because the world is a dangerous place, and my Hummer will keep me safe.

BTW, I think the switch to the metric probably helped Detroit 3 find their way to tighter tolerances and univerisally available parts.

 

A truck's a truck, an SUV's for Mommy. No one's buying a pickup for prestige. 'Cept maybe the Hummer one's. I figure, I see someone in a pickup or cargo van, they need it, and I begrudge them nothing.

 

90% of the trucks on the road aren't used as trucks, they're used as daily drivers and nothing more.

 

Exactly right. Real trucks have comercial plates on them the other 90% have regular tags on them. Those are the problem. The other problem is that none of these same people do anything to try and carpool. it makes me sick when I'm traveling and see vehicle after vehicle with only one person inside. That is so wasteful and makes me sick. Not to mention the over crowded roads.
The main cause for the truck/SUV being so popular was the death of the fulsize RWD cars. As soon as the government drove them away back in the mid 80's people started craving SUVs.
I'm affraid the public won't get a clue even if gas were to go to 5 bucks a gallon. They would just keep pumping away without a care.

 

In reality, many of those vehicles are no safer than your average economy car.

 

The fact of the matter is that the japanes have been making a far superior economy car for years and now they are going to take over the truck market too(american built toyota). American cars arent very american any more any way. I'd rather buy a jap import built by people that care about the product than an "american" car built by mexicans making 50 cents a day that could care less.

 

True, but you have to realize how expensive American cars would be if they didn't save a few million a year on cheaper labor. No one in his/her right mind would spend $40,000 on a Chevy Impala when a Hyundai is offering the same quality/options for $22,000. Of course people who are devoted to these companies will still buy, but each year people will just gradually lose interest and come to his/her senses. And it's not just American companies going after cheap labor, Toyota Tacoma's are built in Mexico, as are VW Beetles/Jettas (only about 1/3 of Jettas).

 

Scion 100% Japan. Look at the window sticker of any Scion and you'll see that they are 100% Japan. As for the Big3 well most of the parts are from all over the place and are not All American autos any more. If the Big3 wants to turn sales back around they might want to follow Scion's lead and make a auto the people really want and not what they want us to want. Better gpm, cool, easy to trick out and easy on the pocket. The other difference is if one of the Big3 made the Scion and it was 100% American it would cost around $35,000 for basic and $42,500 for a limited.

 

Honestly, I don't think just anyone should be able to buy a large truck or large SUV without being able to prove without a doubt they are using it for something worthwhile (like a business) & not just to carry their a$$es around.

I would say that people have enough sense NOT to do that & should be able to make that decision on their own, but obviously they don't. I know that sucks, but I think its come to that.

 

They buy them (women anyway) because they feel "safer" being in a vehicle designed to drive over the top of a Corolla. Little do they know, it's safer to be in the Corolla than in that Chevy Tahoe. The men just get a big truck for some "male enhancement".

Just give it some time, once the younger generation becomes the majority controlling factor in the auto industry, SUV's will become more rare. I know that out of all of my close friends and family (anyone under the age of 24), only 1 person drives a truck. He has a Dodge Ram 3500 H.O. cummins, but guess what? He uses it to tow around a boat and jetski's.

 

Yeah, SUVs have a rollover risk, but F=MA, therefore the Corolla would be crushed in a head-on accident with a Hummer. The Hummer remains intact.

I can attest to this, as I was broadsided by an older Ford truck, and my car shrank ~4-5", while the truck had a scratched chrome bumper.

I think the large SUV poses a risk (for aforementioned reason) to everyone else, which makes them doubly unsafe, from my point of view, but from the SUV driver's point of view, F=MA, and if I've got more mass than you, you'll never injure me.

 

It is hard to put the entire blame on the manufacturers practices.

The workers are as much at falt as the mangers. With the help of the Unions assemblers with nothing more than a high school degree were making as much as 25$/ hour in the 70's. With full benifits, paid time off, coffee breaks, and a general care less attitude, it is amazing that american manufacturing can compete even with government subsidies and trade restrictions.

You don't like the situation your in, then encourage your children to focus in school get a college education and work at least half as hard as your foreign competition. While you may be content to rot with a beer and a cigarette blaming the enemy outside the gate; decent hard working farmers, carpenters, and research scientist have been surviving on far less than what automotive assemblers are spoon fed from the day they get their union card. Get down off your ego and find a way to better yourself.

Oh and if you had saved some of that money you were making in the glory days, you could live off your investments instead of waiting for the mail man to bring your social security check, pension check, disability check, or whatever other government money they take out of my pocket to give to you.

 

Thought I'd chime in with my 2 cents. Here's my take on the declining market share of domestic vehicles. The bottom line is they can't match the quality or reliability at the same price. The reasons why are:

1) by a large margin, the pension system. There are cost studies out on pension and health care for retiree's, and it runs about $1900 a vehicle.

See Car and Driver http://www.caranddriver.com/dailyaut...nt-prices.html

Link your figures here people, good research leads to good debate, not arguments.

2) Dealer discounts. Those savings have to come from somewhere, and it becomes a mix of padding the initial MSRP and pulling funds from R&D, T&E and engineering. Discounts also reduce resale value and cause the vehicle to be less "desireable"

3) Labor. yes, it's cheaper to build things overseas or across borders. Mexico is a much better value since inventory can be driven and doesn't need to be boated in.

Summary: Quality for dollar is less mainly because you are paying for FORMER workers of the domestic big three. Scions pure pricing helps combat depreciation and allows the dealer to maintain a profit and stay competitive with other dealers. Look at the gen1 xB for resale estimates, I think they're worth more now then new. Without needing to pad the MSRP to account for estimates, Toyota can also budget for more engineering and test hours, allowing for a reliability increase. Labor is a driver, but not a large one. Foriegn owned companies also assemble domesticly to avoid import fees I believe, so a Toyota US assembled actually employs people, though maybe not the engineers who are back in Japan. Don't feel bad for us engineers though, there's pleanty of work elsewhere.

 

I agree that the assemblers whine too much whn it comes to pay, there is def too much sense of entitlement there be happy with decent pay and your already cheap benefits. 've worked way ahrder for less money but the benefits were cheap so the overall pay was still good and I was still living good. There is still potential for the big three they just need new designers. Such as cobals ss is cool the base model sucks. If they sold the base model with the ss bumbers and spoiler they would've sold way more, it's just plastic any way, probly cocst just as much to make the ss bumpers as it does to make the base garbage. They are just way too greedy. And next time give the white collar peeps a pay cut and the'd save way more money.

 

i just cant stand hearing, and this is comming form me and my little brother (16) (we both drive scion xbs gen 1 +2) i cant stand hearing kids saying my dad is loosing his job because of you. people are so centered around the fact that me buying a foreign car is the problem that they forget about the problems the workers at the big three are causing themselves! i hate hearing stuff like this when they dont have any facts or anything surounding their argument with me- other than the bumper sticker that states " out of a job yet? keep buying foreign!" which is a real bumper sticker here in detroit.

the buy american slogan is the best marketing slogan anyone ever thought of.

aman

 

Someone needs to make a new bumper sticker reading...
Out of a Job Yet? Keep Building Crap!

 

Tell those people that their parents should go work for Honda/Toyota/Subaru before GM/Ford just decide to up and move on out and over to Mexico/Canada.