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iTrader: (1)

I thought about that the first time I saw the grills, but I've been trying really hard to stay away from this one... I guess I just failed.

Zsanz

Considering the low pressure area under the hood removing the 2 bumper side vents more or less allowing suction isn't enough for sufficient airflow?

Kiiski

Zio,
What was the coolant temperature and the under hood temperature before your mod? And what are they now? It would be interesting to see what they were/are and to see if they exceeded the manufacturers recommended operating temperatures on the individual sensors/hoses/soforths.
Also, do you have any real world CFM numbers through the engine compartment, before and after?
Kiiski

danos_XBox

Am I missing the function of a radiator and fan assembly in cooling an engine? Or the tranny cooler? Air cooled machinery need air flow. Radiator vehicles do not rely on air flow to keep their cool.The radiator and fan assemblies cool the engine sufficiently under the manufacturers carefully engineered conditions. All this talk about air dams and the like would interest me if my engine were running too hot. For instance a stuck thermostat would raise temps enough to trigger alerts. When these parts work proper and your gauge stays where designed to on your dash. Engine lives long happy life!

zio

No ur not missing anything- my radiator works, but the engine compartment lacked adaquate ventilation in my scion that is "my" conclusion based upon the "dam" effect of the front bumper and the dirt pattern on the radiator which indicates that only about 27% of the fresh air flow was making it to the engine compartment and most of this passes across the bottom of the motor leaving the top to cook, and of course that's where all my sensors and electricals are.

Heat rises, and gets trapped under the hood in this design, creating a heat blanket that cooks everything in the highest portions of the engine compartment, this is a BAD thing.

That combined with the Hot rubber and plastic smell, and I realized that it needed to be cooler- combined with a decent airflow calculation which showed that if there had been vents installed in the direct airflow, then an additional 38.8 ft3/sec (cubed) would move through the front of my radiator at 55mph, which to me seems like a better idea than blocking all that cooling air.

After thinking about it for several weeks and examining 1000's of other vehicles that are on the roads I noticed that the oldest ones still running have massive grills which allow lots of cooling air to the engine compartments. many of these sport modified louvered hoods which explains their longevity, but most of them have HUGE grills covering the front of the cars. You can see this for yourself in any large city.

I'm not trying to dis scion I love my XB, it is the best vehicle I have ever owned, but it needed to be modified so I could continue to enjoy it for an extended period of time without failures. As for the 400K comment, that's good, I would like at least that many miles, but time is another factor and driving conditions do vary.

I see funny designs on many cars where a cast plastic piece that "looks" like a grill but is actually a dam is placed in front of the car, LMAO, what a joke in thermal engineering!! (I.e. this is wrong)

Not to mention the effect of slightly higher temps on an aluminum engine block, it slowly warps the entire block and head, when the cooling channels clog up with crud there are hot spots that develop in engines and uneven expansion occurs during usage, this progresses to eventual cam and bearing failures or leaky seals which cause other problems. If adaquate air-based cooling were to surround an aluminum engine assembly, the assembly would last longer. The air acts as a secondary cooling envelope to help stave off the degradative effects of thermal expansion. As mentioned before, when the fans start to slow and fail as ALL electric fans do, these problems will emerge. But my focus is not on the block it is more on the heat-sensitive stuff attached to that block.

Of course slightly lower temps will benefit an aluminum engine block assembly along with all the electricals, do you guys know what the square of the resistance to electrical current when the temps of those wires is increased, what about the effects of copper oxidation combined with the normal dirt and road oils that get all over engine compartments? When temperatures rise, electrical resistance increases, which causes a "current spike" or amperage increase to keep the system functional which will damage electrical ECU's and sensors by heating them up, all Solid state electronics and electrical systems behave in this manner. Simply put: electrical resistance increases when you heat up a copper wire or solid state device.

I won't bother calculating the free-air cross section of my new grill, there's a right way and a wrong way to install the grill material, if you put it on backwards, it will deflect the air and if you put it on correctly it will help scoop the air in. I'd estimate still an additional 30' ft3/sec makes it through the grill at 55mph.

And yes without adaquate cooling your cars are inferior to mine.

I am going to louver the hood as well I have calculated the best placement of the vents and will be modding the hood.

Current mod cost: $30 US.

I drive a very nice vehicle and it is the coolest XB on the roads, all the guys in the BMW's think my mod looks great and so do all of my friends.

Zio

lvbitwiz

And at the end of the day, 5 pages of egotistical drivel has been distilled down to....

a sales pitch

zio

I provided facts & actual solutions you provided the drivel with your hatred and nonsense posts.

You haven't provided one single shred of any kind of proof to say that this mod won't help my car's electrical systems or sub-systems, while simple electrical resistance theory validates mine- go back to school.

By providing a physical solution I also validate my claims and invite others to experience my level of happiness and success.

And I have a product- now, necessity is the mother of all invention.

Zio

Kiiski

No, you have not provided facts and actual solutions. You came up with a perceived problem and a theory to correct it.
See my post above regarding real world statistics.
You come up with these, you might have a more receptive audience.
Having worked in the aerospace industry, and aerodynamics in particular, a "bigger hole" is often NOT the right solution, and can actually decrease airflow when there is a barrier (such as a radiator) behind it due to turbulent and pressure effect. Duct shaping, which often DOES incorporate shaped deflection, as in a car grill, can be far more effective than duct sizing.

Again,
lets see some real numbers.

Kiiski

danos_XBox

fortunately for me, (5 years of electrical engineering training), I know all too well the effects of heat on electrical components,wiring, connectors, and the like (computers benefit from cooling for example, from fan assemblies and keeping dust levels down). yet even by these precautions these wires, connectors and circuitry will fail, in time, long before the engine of my car.

Yet you know all of this zio.

Still, you have failed to satisfy one question that I have for you. Why is it that only your car and maybe one other that joined you have this smell? You have interested me enough to check (daily) my engine compartment to get even one hint of rubber or electrical overheating smell and no one that I know of at the dealership has smelled anything. .

I believe you have an imperfection in yours that you have been fooled into thinking is fixed. And you are so paranoid now that you will pursue this with your hood mod.

Your figures, that you have, prove little. My point is.... has Toyota called you to engineer for them yet or do they want to copyright your design and pay you big bucks?

Car looks better now! I have to hand you that.

Brande0408

sorry, but the only thing I could think of is putting smoke machines next to the vents and making a dragon car. and get it to shoot flames to. Finally if it works for you more power to you, just don't actually sell it on ebay.

ShaffNasty

[quote="zio

I drive a very nice vehicle and it is the coolest XB on the roads, all the guys in the BMW's think my mod looks great and so do all of my friends.

Zio[/quote]

You have friends? Real friends (not the ones you argue with in your head)...

seppuku27

Looks like a BMW had sex with a H3.

ShaffNasty

^ and had a kid with down syndrome...

seppuku27

The h3 should have used some protection. Another bastard child.

danos_XBox

Just a thought zio. Aren't the electrical components in all the Japanese cars sealed? This is to avoid damage by dust, heat, water etc. If you add air flow to a computer, say a desktop laptop, so on, then to those open electrical parts I say "yes, that will cool them off.

But:
You are sending airflow to covered sealed electrical boxes. Hence no benefit at all. eccept maybe to your wrapped wiring. Now where in your sealed electronics is there any rubber or plastic that can burn unless you develope a fire maybe under your hood.

Your resistance is futile.

zio

Wiring has temp ratings, semiconductive sensors break down faster at higher temps.

Considering the "heat blanket" effect of the engine compartment layout due to it's sealed design, adaquate heat dissapation should be "up & out" not down & around to the sides, it would help though. The fenders are essentially sealed to keep dirt out of the engine compartment, and the rear of the hood is sealed as well.

Say you have 90 degrees Celsius wire which is pretty standard = 194 degrees Fahrenheit it can get much hotter than this under the hood of a car, the design with the exhaust manifold way up high inside the heat-blanket area, acts like an air-inducted heater, with at least 100-125 degree F air coming off the radiator, the air is already hot and then you blast this against either side of the exhaust manifold and you have a great heater design, no wait- a bad heater design....

When you go any higher than 90 degrees C your wiring rating falls sharply and the resistance shoots up, I'm surprised they didn't wrap the wiring harness around the exhaust manifold, lol!!

When you have a temp that even for a short distance exceeds the temp rating the outer nylon or rubber jacket gets smelly and the resistance shoots up and you get a voltage drop-

I worked with industrial automation controls systems for many years, and smelly wiring is something that I am trained to recognize in the field. So when my scion smelled like work, I worried and did something about it.

All you whiny people out there who haven't ever smelled the wiring cooking on a million dollar control system before- too bad, perhaps you really don't know enough. "I work for an aerospacecompany" oooo so did I. Working for a Aerospace company doesn't qualify you to downrate this thread, I know wiring and automation controls failure issues pre/during/post, you may not.

And people like Shaftnasty- go find some other thread to downrate, you got burned earlier do you want more? sizzle sizzle... Did you even graduate high school?

Americans are LAAA-ZY! I'm surprised even one dude posted any problems. Much less wrote a friggin book and made a product to help correct the problem on this.

GET YOUR ZIO MOD KIT TODAY!
So boys and girls- the cooler you keep wiring the better, most are rated at no more than 90 degrees C, unless you got special wiring which you don't. The engine and everything attached to it under the hood likes to stay cooooool. Sensors also fail when too hot sealed or not. Most manufacturers usually use the smallest diameter copper wiring for the task allowable by law or spec- which typically is 150% of the rated load under "free-air" conditions not blast heater conditions with a tight wrap around them. A cable tray is an example of a free-air design.

ZIO

zio

cmon lets be specific- what does your warranty specifically not cover? did you even read it?

I'll betcha heat-sensitive sensors are among those items not covered by the standard warranty.

Lets get a list going- shall we? I'll bet I can find all kinds of very specific heat sensitive items not covered by my warranty.

Of course- my car won't suffer from these failures as much as yours- because I installed additional engine compartment vents.

GET YOURS TODAY!


Zio

BozzMan

Zio Wrote:
"Americans are LAAA-ZY! I'm surprised even one dude posted any problems. Much less wrote a friggin book and made a product to help correct the problem on this."

LMFAO!

Um, your the only one with the problem!

zio

And what a cool kid they had...

Get your clone on order today!

Zio

chadfo

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