JDMJim

it's still funny that the xD is what it is since it's the direct replacement to the xA in Japan. Both are the Ist in Japan. Maybe Scion should start offereing engine combo's like the rest of the world. 1.8 or 2.4 for the xB2. 1.5 or 1.8 for the xD. Cost cutting CAN be done and at the same time, offer more to the customers. Especially since our car are built in Japan. Maybe the AWD option for the xB2 and xD would be a great option as well. Only thing is it's offered with the smaller engines in Japan. But really doubt we'll ever see a QNC bB badged as a Scion hit our shores. It's against the rules of car design to introduce a model replacement with something smaller.

Tomas

Not always - a number of vehicles, even US vehicles, have been "re-evaluated" and "re-invented" as newer, smaller models.

Easiest to point to is the Ford Thunderbird which started out as a small sporty-car to compete with the Corvette (when it was small), went through numerous "longer, lower, wider" incarnations until it was eventually actually being built on a Lincoln chassis.

Ford looked at the bag of suet it had evolved into and "re-thought" things. It came out as a small sporty-car again.

http://www.edmunds.com/ford/thunderbird/history.html

It can happen, but only when a company finally realizes it made a mistake.

Tom

bB2NER

It didn't stop Ford from bringing the Mustang II (Pinto based) to market.

JDMJim

you know, I can argue the Ford's. Thunderbird was reintroduced and was ahit in the 80's. Was reintroduced again in the, what was it, 2000? THAT was a real hit....or not. The Mustang II came out and it a bastard child. slow and ugly. Then FOrd made it bigger with a bigger engine and hence the dawn of the fox body. And even today, it continues to grow in girth.

Sciond

My 1990 T-Bird SC 25th anniversary model was amazing.

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Tomas

I'm ready for the xB to be re-incarnated as the "US bB" again.

With gas prices headed the way they are (And when were they NOT headed up? I paid $.18 a gallon when I first started driving.), bringing in ever larger and larger cars isn't really the answer. Bringing in efficient cars at reasonable prices (that leaves out any of the current hybrids or electrics) and with decent range (leaving out the electrics) is the direction needed.

That was one of the strong features of the xB Classic: I was an amazingly single-minded design from a single designer's head. His focus was a basic, simple, efficient, consumer friendly design for an economical urban utility vehicle.

Right now the US is finally reaching the gas prices seen in the rest of the world, the majority of the public lives in urban and suburban environments, and the economy is in the, uh, "pot."

We need smaller, economical, reliable, broad use vehicles, and we need a wide choice of them. We need to learn how to actually conserve and to make reasonable compromises.

The only way for us to learn that, to get away from urban freeways being filled with two ton SUVs with only one person on board (SUVs that often only get as far off-road as the end of their driveways), and learn to use more reasonable and responsible vehicles is to have those vehicles available to us.

Want to hit the Scion demographic, concentrate on fun vehicles that they can afford. Make them easy to work on and modify. Make the basically reliable. Make them simple, but with the ability to be easily made as complex as the owner wants to make them. Make them versatile, and above all, make each and every model unique - on the outside (the "guts" should be as common as possible, shared across many models for economy).

Cars in much of the world are like that. We need those world cars introduced here. We need to learn why the rest of the world swears by their economical, efficient vehicles (and for the most part do not understand the US "bigger is better" drive to excess size and displacement).

OK, enough preaching. Sorry I put you through that.

Here, enjoy this for a few minutes... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsLFcEZU1GU

Sciond

I just want the Dex

drviolin

Thanks for posting this, Tomas! It's a brilliant little film.

jpugz

I have the 1st gen one and while its a bit slow - it is light years better than the 2nd generation. The 2nd gen is bloated, lacks any character, awful gas mileage in the low 20's/high teens and the interior fit and finish is worse than gen 1. Also the competition is getting fierce from Kia and Hyundai. A friend just bought the 2012 Hyundai Elantra and guess what - it is a hell of a lot better than any Scion now period. What happened - like all Toyota now - they sat on their laurels of the "reliability card" and the competition just kept passing them by. I hope Scion gets some sort of direction or it will disappear like Saturn.

TheSaint77

haha, that vid rocks. Thanks for posting Tom

Beantownxb

I own a 2009 xB wagon and I get a lot of complements on mine. I haven't seen the new new ones yet.

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sameerpwnz

I wish that we had the bB here, it's way better than the new xB.

I don't see why all of us people are able to figure this out and Toyota isn't, we should all be their marketing dept. lol

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Tomas

At the very least, the marketing folks should be asking existing owners of Scion vehicles some questions: Will their next vehicle be a Scion, and why or why not...

Leave us some room to answer around the questions to get an understanding of their market.

My answer would be no, it will not be a Scion, because neither Scion, Toyota, nor Lexus has a utility city car (Urban Utility Vehicle - UUV) like the original xB/bB and the current bB in the US market. I would also add that I really wish it could be a Scion because of the dealership purchase experience as opposed to others (including Toyota), and my experience with Toyota made products over the years.

I'm willing to buy, they just have to have something I WANT to buy. If nothing changes I may have to invest in a hamster suit...

CharlindaBob

New guy here, so don't throw nothing at me if I am off base or make a mistake.

I have recently bought an '06 xB and I have read every post in this thread and I understand that the complaint isn't that the xB2's aren't good, but they are a different breed than the xB1's, but carry the same name. Also, the differences separates the two more than bringing them together.

The xB1's are distinct, practical and have great gas mileage. I happen to like their looks immensely and that is part of the reason I bought one. The xB2's are, in my opinion, just like so many other vehicles on the road, nondescript. I actually have to look at the name plate to see who made it.

I wish that Scion would have just made upgrades to the original xB design. Like Tomas, I too remember gasoline at 18 cents a gallon and back then I could tell you from a quarter mile away (almost anyways) year, make and model of just about any car. Today, so many look about the same,
but not the xB1. Well, things change and time marches on. Most of the time my xB is the perfect car for running errands and such. If I need something bigger, well I have that too.

I have been to many Asian countries and I have always wondered why "small cars" never really caught on here in America, especially in the cities.

Bob

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toolmanlan

I've owned 7 xBs from 2004 to 2006 great trucks, my current one has 160,000 miles still running strong, it was front end wrecked in 2010 $8500 worth of damage, then appraised at $12,5000 they fixed the truck. Right now they are the best selling wagons in the world
(Edmunds, Kelly, Black Book), with less than 30000 miles they bring above new list price for 2004-2006 xB.dealers can't keep in stock(go to CarMax see what the 04-06 are going for and say wow this guy is right....why u say new nfg, old great.

Comfort, style, gas mileage, all were lost on the new replacements of 2008 till now, that's why there going away. Sit in a 04-06 and feel the difference from your new ones, especially big men 30% less room in front,center console and door panels will hit your body and legs, old ones no way. I will always own one,
they are just to efficient and fun to drive, cold air kit empty, no catalogs or people. I get 35+ mpg still, loaded 1500 lbs plus, 28 mpg with A/C on (I live in Florida). Happy xBing, 2 of my friends own them now and love them. The old ones of course, you can get 150,000 mile warranty from CarMax on a old one.

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SCOTTRODS

Having purchased 2 of the 2012 xB's, I can tell you (without bias) that the old ones were really cool looking.... OKO,... Style has a one up, just barely. There's a difference in "how" they get customized if you gotta do that stuff, but over all, they are still pretty decent looking cars.

As far as Room is concerned, I am a fairly large guy as well, and I have plenty of room. I'm over 210 and have complete comfort in this ride. Froint or back, there's headroom for a 6'3 person without being uncomfortable.... Now someone with extremely long legs.... might find it a bit constrained.... I'm pretty average at 6' and average leg length. I wouldn't recommend this car to a NBA star unless they were freakishly short..... But it's VERY roomy for the average folks.

The REAL reason these guys get such low sales comparatively, is two-fold.They're not popular to the youth, because the adults that usually pay for their kids' rides, are looking at the price, and the fuel economy. They don't get the kind of mpg that older folks are looking for in an economy car... it's just that simple. If I were buying my kid a car (Which, by the way.... aint hap'nin'... they can buy their own or do without).... I'm looking for something that can take a beating and gets super gas mileage. The only thing that would matter as far as popularity, in my world, would be if they liked what they got or not.... They would have to like it or go buy their own car.... Flat. I'm kind of a hard ___ on this matter anyway.... but Beggers can't be choosers if they beg off me.

Appearance is actually pretty decent on these cars. They're deceptively large inside (Somehow Toyota has camouflaged the interior size with an outside that looks much smaller than it is.... If all the OLD people you know, actually sat in and drove one, the sales of these vehicles would go through the roof.... if it weren't for the "so-so" fuel economy.

I have had Toyota branded vehicles many times, and there's a huge issue with Toyota and mpg.... they have given up on making it better, I think, unless you buy their flagship cars. I've been inside the Camry, The Corolla, The FJ, The Highlander, The Rav 4 (stupid named vehicle).... I've even been in the higher end models they call Lexus... Over all, the only things that get decent mileage in their vehicle line-ups, are really the two items, Camry (and pretty much JUST that one in that body) and their hybrids..... Lord,... the mpg Battle was won by Toyota back in the 70's.... They won, and quit fighting after that. Now they are the most mediocre mileage brand out there, and still have a huge following as far as buyers. Until they start losing the sales battles.... nothing changes. If no one has read lately, Camry has sold RECORD numbers this last quarter (I think that was the range that I read).... But still.... RECORD SALES. Of a Car that gets really run-of-the-mill mpg's.

I spent an entire day at the Toyota Scion place before buying the first of my 2 xB's.... I think we sat in and drove almost everything they had. (Only exception would be the FRS scion.... and the iQ... Just not practical for my world).... The best money:mpg count belongs with the Yaris..... Pretty decent mpg's,... but sorely small.... deceptively covering up the fairly roomy interior (considering the actual outside dimensions).... they really do have a roomy feel, when you get past the outward appearance as well. I gave up a really Nice, Low mileage 2004 RAnger, when I bought my second xB.... I almost went for the xD, but was not happy with the power it lacked and the turning radius I enjoyed in my wife's new xB.

The thing is, I probably have sold about 5 xB's for the dealerships in my area, since I bought the first one.... People just don't know what they are seeing, simply due to the exterior hiding the roomy interior.

On to another approach.... Maybe the Toyota of America folks haven't figured out how to get the other vehicles in the safety side that the US markets require. I like the bB open deck model a lot, and I rather think we already have the xB, maybe Toyota should move it on over to the Toyota Brand name and sell them as the Ruckus in the States.... I think the name alone is no longer representative of the machine.... so Changing it to a new name and giving it a better Transmission (Camry gearing), might be the right approach. It could be that easy to get the extra mileage as well..... but I'm no engineer... so maybe they have an understanding of that, I may be missing.

I have read form other forums, there are parts at the dealership software level, for a 2013 model xB, yet none have appeared yet. I suspect it's strictly due to underwhelming sales.

If SCION would spend some money on Marketing these little cars, they might actually sell more as well. There are ZERO commercials on my end of the world. Anyone ever see anything on TV about these little guys? The Marketing budget is what keeps the price low I guess.... They must not have a Marketing budget to speak of. Anyone want to go to the Toyota bunch and change that?

To add a comment on Tom's post from over a year ago,.... I almost went with the Hamster Suit as well.... But Dammit. I found the xB had so much more room to work with.... A substantial difference in my estimation.... and a lack of presence in the market place, for a long time. Kia has been around for a good 15 years or so now, but their first round of vehicles was pretty shoddy to say the least..... from a lot of consumer reports, they're much better than they used to be.... but I get gun shy when it comes to buying a car of questionable maker history. The KIA is much cheaper. I can actually understand why. They look Cheaper, and they feel cheaper, and they're smaller over all, inside and out.

The Scion has one cool feature that makes it a killer vehicle for ME. Speed sensitive Steering. At low speeds, you can turn that sucker around in VERY tight areas. This equates to having the feel of a smaller car. But up at Highway speeds, it changes o less sensitive steering, making it feel much larger in the control category.

I'm telling you..... Scion is missing the Marketing Wagon SO BAD...... Just showing some of these features on a commercial once in a while, they'd have a hard time keeping them in stock.