JDMJim

yes they do

drviolin

Yes, I know. This is why and how you get these cars under different names in different markets. The Scion thing is a gimmick, as you know so well already. But it has worked incredibly well - so well, in fact, that a Toyota rep in a European country checked out my xB and said it was not a Toyota!

dj4monie

Its simple the original xB was built for the Asia/Pacific market. Its funky styling however many thought would appeal to younger Americans just beginning to drive, find themselves, etc.

However it was underpowered and its boxy nature didn't allow for good fuel economy, its tiny engine allowed for better than decent economy. When they did market surveys, they found people wanted more conventional styling and more power, so that's what they did.

I doubt its slow selling based on its looks. I'd say the real reasons is vastly more complex than that. Also the Japanese and Euro versions don't reflect the need for 5-mph bumpers that are required in North America.

Here just some of the factors affecting xB sales -

1) More options, more choice.

I guess some of you more myopic types forget the Kia Soul is available. You also have the Nissan Cube and Nissan Juke all cars in that vane if not marketed to the same demographic. I would also say the Ford Fiesta as its the cheapest Ford with Sync.

At close to $20,000 loaded, several other options appear. Just a few of them are Kia Koup, Honda Civic, Honda Insight, Suzuki SX4, Mazda 3 and even Toyota Matrix.

2) Income/Employment/Unemployment

Teen Unemployment Rate is 46% for those 18-24, the target demographic.

This would also be the same people paying off massive school loans and unable to find a job with the degree they have.

The Unofficial unemployment rate is 16-17%, not the 9.6 almost 10% quoted. The larger number is the Labor Dept Stats including those that have stopped looking for work.

In the Los Angeles area, unemployment is 12% and even higher in communities of color.

I'd say those are most of the reasons xB's are staying on lots longer. That might make people opt for the less expensive xD which has similar standard features, a bit unconventional hatchback styling and is about $2-3K cheaper than xB's that are most dealer lots.

You also have to remember the xA/xD have appealed to much wider market because of its more conservative styling and reasonable price point.

I'll also add in the factor that you can easily get a pre-owned BMW 3 series for about the price of a new xB and in our materialist culture, being able to buy almost new near luxury appeals just as much as buying a car more connected to your age bracket.

kahsperr

^^ Well Said.

drviolin

What an in-depth essay, dj4monie! Well done!

JDMJim

sorry, I'm taking a macro economics class this semester and those people NOT looking for work or are students are NOT included in the unemployment statistic. but if they were( myself included), then it could very well be that high. So the current unemployment rate reflects the typical( frictional about 5%) and the cyclical ( laid off) making it 9.6%.

djct_watt

This argument has been made many times before in other threads. It's a goof argument, but IMO holds no eater. Scion sales in particular are down in a disproportionate way, while other segments and brands are doing well. If the economy is to blame, it be a proportional decrease among competition. But right now the competition is doing very well.

Secondly, competition is up, true. However, the sales numbers are so bad it suggests the xB is uncompetitive.

Big_Bird

Hate to say it, but I see less and less of a future for Scion.

Tomas

I really don't think the "Scion Visionaries" who started peddling Japanese econo-cars to the US youth market were really that hot.

They originally were thinking the xA was going to be the big seller - the car that would be the real icon for Scion.

Instead, young America locked onto the xB.

When those same wizards of marketing were developing the 2nd gen, the asked over and over from those who were unsatisfied with the xB Classic - even those who didn't buy it - what they should change and what they did wrong.

Never did they ask what they did right or try to figure out why it had a cult following.

They took the Top Ten answers from those who didn't like the original and rolled the results into the 2nd gen. Scion actually did an amazing job of meeting every one of the xB haters needs - and came out with a car that the xB lovers, uh, didn't.

These are the same folks who couldn't understand why the xB outsold the xA...

The xB2 is an excellent value and a good car, but it is not a replacement for the original cult car xB.

These are:

djct_watt

Quite possibly THE most eloquent, concise, and ACCURATE post on the xB1 vs xB2 topic I've ever read.



__________________

drviolin

Very well summarized. Funny, I was never asked by Toyota about my likes or dislikes with regard to the xB...And I also think the original bB/xB is a better-looking car than its replacement. I don't care for the missing 3rd window. Makes for a large blind spot.

JDMJim

never asked about what we like cuz we live in negativeland. when was the last time you heard on the news something really happy? how many praise the car they, themsleves test drove and forked over money for, yet come on here and complain about the very same car?

Tomas

To some extent true, Jim, but in all honesty they WERE trying to come out with a new model, not just re-hash the hit they already had, so asking what to change makes sense.

What doesn't make sense is not asking also what under any circumstances NOT to change.

(And not all of us complain about the box. When asked, the changes I suggested were minor and evolutionary rather than revolutionary: Cruise control, better sound deadening, and side air bags.* As an engineer I've always appreciated the amazing elegance of the engineering that went into the box.)

What they didn't study is the why of the xB classic becoming a cult classic - what was it about that odd little City Car box that attracted people.

They really should have done that, tried to understand why it outsold the more sophisticated, better performing, quieter, less expensive, and more elegant xA that they expected to be the winner. (I had one of each, and could easily directly compare. The feel of the xA was nicer, but for some reason the xB was always my favorite.)

Only after they understood why the xB Classic was a totally unexpected winner in this market should they have attempted to change anything. Without knowing why it was a winner, they took a big chance of changing the wrong thing, and removing the "win" from it.

Their second mistake was calling the new one an xB.
________

My box was parked down at the Johnston Ridge Observatory a couple weeks ago, and when we came out, and saw it patiently waiting in the parking lot with all the other vehicles, its "difference" from everything else in the lot was striking.




* All of which the JDM and World Car new model have. The US is the ONLY market that got the super-sized version.

drviolin

You should see the "difference" when mine is parked in European parking lots. There is nothing like it for thousands of miles around.

Sciond

Agreed to all....If you look at my sig line I own some cars that some people dream of owning HOWEVER I do not like any of them as much as the original XB. The funny thing is they never even thought about the person like me who could afford most any car they want BUT chose to drive the Xb because they loved it.... They never asked me why

purrkee

Really guys!The second gen xb,cube and soul, won,t sell well in the near future.These cars are too odd to sell to an ever changing public.

Tomas

Let's take 'em one at a time...

xB2 - fits in with the HHR and the discontinued PT Cruiser. Basically a small 2wd SUV type vehicle, or a soccer mom van without sliding doors.

Cube - Same size as the xB classic, same general shape, bit larger engine, but weird exterior design, weird CVT, weird interior details (do I really understand a vehicle with a dash toupé?), and some stiff pricing.

Soul - The Hamstars have won this round. One heck of a lot of fun vehicle for the price, and a pretty reasonable stock layout. Moving off the lots as fast as they get 'em.

If someone in an Escalade backs over my xB Classic, there is nothing in the current US market to directly replace it, so I'd probably end up with a Soul to fill in until there is something I actually want - even though it IS a Kia...

JDMJim

i admit there are some weird designs out there. The new bB is quirky. but then again, I hated the NCP bB when i first saw it too. now I own it. But i find the Juke and Cube looking even stranger in America. i never thought twice seeing the Z12 Cube in Japan, but here it looks odd. The Soul kills me with it's window lines. gives it a droopy booty style. The Mitsu RVR (aka Outlander sport) looks cool too. But I am interested in a Gencoupe. they look like fun

drviolin

This may be somewhat off-topic, but it seems the French were there first with a boxy concept. The Japanese, as always, ended up perfecting it, making the French sweat profusely. Here is a Citroen C3 Picasso, which may have taken more than one cue from our beloved xB:




Nice-looking as it may be, with many clever and practical design touches, the whole concept is not quite as well-executed as the xB, primarily due to lack of available A/T, not to mention the inferior space-efficiency. More sweating is in order for Citroen if they really want to compete with the Asians.

Sciond

I like it^^^^^^
As soon as my Jetta sells I am going to possibly another project.. I wish the Dex was here to buy