JDMJim

I have no issue passing peple in my xB1. guess it's not really an issue

djct_watt

And you say this because the sales number completely and irrefutably back up your claim, right? LOL. I'm not saying that the xB2 is better or worse period, and for you the xB2 sounds like a better fit. But for many other people, you couldn't be more wrong. And the sales data proves that too. The majority of the market disapproves of the xB2 and is a sales disaster.

In regards to Kia's in accidents, here's a nice FACT (rather than pure conjecture):
from http://www.kia-world.net/index.php/2...h-test-rating/

For the NHTSA, the Kia scored 5 stars in 3 categories and 4 stars in 2. The xB scored lower with 5 stars in only 2 categories and 4 stars in 3.
If you are comparing accidents you've personally seen, it's hard to be a fair judge. There's no way to collectively analyze speeds, consistency, and crash angles. But controlled tests are by far a better (and more impartial) way to go about it.

alfundo

iTrader: (2)

the first gens were promoted a lot more heavily than the second gens...when was the last time you saw a Scion commercial for the second gen? when the Toyota dealers around here run commercials you see the whole Toyota lineup and not one Scion, the only reason you know they are a Scion dealer is because corporate made them include it in their name.

so this leads to the only Scions being seen are the ones people are introduced to on the lot at which point the salesman flips them back over to the Toyota (or Ford) line.

Sciond

you can't keep investing in a loser....

Sciond

great answer...

JDMJim

htere are quite a few people I know that had serious accidents in xB1's that totaled the car. they all walked away with bumps and bruises

Tomas

When first introduced, the xB2 was promoted a LOT more heavily than the xB Classic ever was, yet the hoped for massive sales for the xB2 never materialized.

Instead of taking an existing Japanese market car and doing only enough change to make it legal in the US, they developed a car just for the US - and lost a great deal of the unique appeal the original xB Classic had.

Now it appears that Scion corporate and the dealers have all but given up on pushing the Scion xB2 and xD, and have exclusively pinned their hopes on the tC.

I don't see many ads for the tC these days, either, but they sell better than the xB...

Scion has always had the "alternative" and "viral" ads as their main thrust, they haven't placed their ads in the more "normal" car sales venues.

When they had quirky "cult" cars like their original lineup that was good. Now that their lineup is nearly indistinguishable from the "average" US market vehicles, the "underground" marketing of Scions doesn't work as well.

Actually Scion's biggest marketing venue has always been "word of mouth" and depended on current Scion owners to talk up their cars. That is a major reason why Scion was so supportive of the Scion community; to keep the owners involved and excited and talking about their Scions.

Now that they have only unexciting cars, and, sadly, matching unexcited owners for the most part, that advertising method seems to have dried up for them, so they have backed away from community support and the fun and thrill that used to be Scion.

The old crew of xB Classic owners were for the most part pretty nuts about their cars. They were (and still are) always doing odd things to them and with them, trying out strange ideas, playing with them. The new Scion xB2 owners are much more reserved, much more "middle of the road" Mr. and Mrs. Suburban America with 2.3 kids and a dog. Not all, just most.

Scion needs something exciting, something to once again set fire to the imaginations of the fringe, the people who don't fit the average, boring, normal center of the market. There is too much competition in the middle of the market: That's where almost everyone aims their products.

Scion needs to play on it's one time strengths and STAY on the edges, in the shadows playing around the night fires, with the rebels and outcasts, those with the imaginations and the drive to...

Oops, sorry, you got me talking like an xB Classic owner again.

(Speaking of ads, I don't recall seeing that many ads for the Toyota Matrix, Avalon, or some of the other models, either, but they still sell.)

CXTKRS1

For me it was, I test drove an xB1 and the time it took to go from the on ramp to 75 mph was a little to slow for my taste.

Tomas

Over the years I have owned and driven my share of extreme cars, cars that were extreme at both ends of the power spectrum.

My 1.6L Porsche, my 1.1L MG sedans, my 0.6L Honda coupe, my 7.2L Plymouth Barracuda, and everything in between.

One thing I have learned over the past 45 years of driving is that so long as the vehicle can keep up with the moving traffic once it is in it, the only difference between low power-to-weight ratio and high is the amount of driving skill and planning needed to merge.

I have no problem at all getting my 1.5L box up to speed and merging into traffic without causing any problems at all for myself or other drivers.

One of the techniques I always use with cars that others might consider "underpowered" is to pick a hole to merge into that is well behind me, accelerate at my best rate to just OVER the flow of traffic, then slow down to drop into the "hole" that has just caught up with me.

(With a high powered car people have a tendency to look ahead, pick a spot in front of them and charge like Hell to catch up with it. No talent or skill required.)

Since my 1.5 liter box can run at anywhere from 30 to 50 MPH over the freeway speed limits in the US, and since I can maintain freeway speeds climbing mountains, I don't consider my box to be horribly outclassed - it just needs a bit of skill to drive effectively.

Actually, I take pride in my ability to keep up with or lead traffic safely and effectively.

Sometimes, though, I do have to scramble to catch up...


(Yes, that's 108MPH...)

JDMJim

i understand some people's gripe over the tC2. magazines have been knocking the cheaper feeling interior. the radio "that looks like it was installed by Circuit City...". I personally don't like the ONE round airvent. it's out of place. But I was honored to drive both gens and yea, the tC1 seems a bit more luxurious, but the new car appeals to me more because of it's handling. you know, When I thought about it, I would liek to have a tC2. It's faster and handles better. But i understand the arguement. to many, it's the same car for more money which it's it's not. More similar cash, I'd rather have a Gencoupe tho.

With Toyota paying out more money to the U.S. over this gas pedal thing( another 2 million), it's gonna be hard for them to start up a new model for the U.S.

passing people in low powered cars really comes down to anticipation. Any clear onramp I hit with my xB is spirited. even on airride. I can be doing 70 easy most of the time. other wise, in light of anticipation, I stay back from the slowpokes and accelerate past them when I hit the highway. even so in my xD. xB1 hangs with the TDi's in acceleration. I don't hear anyone complaining about that bought one here.

anyone that rides your a$$ making you seem slow makes a problem for themself.

But Tomas makes a good point. tC2 been on sale for how long and I STILL haven't seen one on the road in Chicago yet. All that advertiseing for what? it's a waste of money with this economy. hell, the Juke has been on sale for a shorter time and I have already seen one of those. I am still surprise at the warm reception the Cube gets around here. I'm not sold on the world design like the round bumpers and goofy headliner.

drviolin

Tomas, where were you able to go so fast without getting caught? I have done it easily in Germany, but you live out west where there are supposedly strict speed limits...:?And BTW, have you ever pushed the car to the max speed or was this the max?

Sciond

nope it sure does not....gets whipped across the whole power band at all speeds..
all that being said my xb never felt slow with the mild performance mods on mine even after almost 130k miles I put on mine

CXTKRS1

This has nothing to do with being able to merge into traffic. For me it comes down to the driving experience and the 1.5L (the 1.8L as well) engine simply cannot provide a joyful experience behind the wheel.

Tomas

That was on one of the Scion cruises on a "rural" highway that had no crossroads for quite a considerable stretch.

On those cruises, my box is always the "six o'clock" position - the tail end of the line - making sure none of the others have dropped out or had problems. I'm cleanup. The guy with the wheelbarrow, push broom, and shovel following the elephants in the parade.

Most of those on a cruise are equipped with two way radios so we can stay in touch and know what is happening all up and down the line.

In this instance there were two miles of Scions in front of me and nothing at all behind me. I knew I could give it a run. (And yes, that is Vanilla's top speed, or pretty close to it. Not bad for a 1.5L, as streamlined as a brick and on oversize tires.)

Sciond

yep triple digits are not a problem in the xb1

Tomas

Yeah, it's really no problem getting up there, but by the time she does, her tongue's hanging out and she's panting pretty hard...

drviolin

I find that getting up to those speeds is not a big problem at all. What IS a problem, however, is the fuel consumption at 4000 rpm and above. The summer before last, I let it get up and stay up there in Germany quite a few times, but fun as it might have been, it took a big toll on the mileage. And at German gas prices, it was simply way too expensive on a long trip. I find that when I keep it around 75-80 mph, the mileage does not suffer too much, and those are my speeds for driving through Germany and France now. Of course, this means I am behind most people most of the time, but I don't mind. They still look at the car with curiosity and envy!

Tomas

Yeah, on my trips from western Washington to Montana and back, much of my cruise is in the 75-80 MPH range, and Vanilla is quite happy at those speeds (being an automatic she is at a lot lower RPM than the manual to maintain those speeds).

drviolin

Indeed. I just wish it had a fifth gear for those speeds, though. Well, you can't have everything in a package so original, unusual and efficient, and so inexpensive at the same time. But if the Box had a 1.8L with a 5-speed auto, for about $1-1.5K more, it would be the perfect car. xB2 is largely a miss, except for the nice-looking dash.

Sciond

a 6 spd in a xb1..if it had that i would have bought 2...