Tomas

Well, uh, basically because Scion Corporate no longer talks to me, possibly because I tell the uncomfortable truth.

If anyone else wants to try to "pass the word" to Scion and give them a jolt of reality (and actually has the ear of anyone there), they are more than welcome to give it a shot.

I can no longer get through.

Take care,
Tom

Sciond

nor can anyone else...probably spending there time finding new ways to cheapen their accelerator pedals.....and trying to buy off people.....

djct_watt

^That's how they ended up where they are. . . selective hearing. When everything is great and they applaud every single thing that comes up. In one word. . . fanboyism. It's the whole "be part of one community and don't say anything bad" crowd and the "if you don't have something nice to say, don't say anything at all" mentality. Pacifism is how REALLY bad ideas come out. . . like the Pontiac Aztek. It's also how a 4 speed automatic transmission continues to be used despite nearly two decades of use and lower priced competitors updated their units to FAR more superior ones.

It would be nice to have more people in Toyota like Mr. Toyoda. But unfortunately, it seems that little has changed since he took over. Just take a look at the specs for the new Yaris. Same powertrain, same transmission, few changes to the exterior; the biggest highlight that people mention is that the speedometer is moved back in front of the driver. If THAT is the biggest point of conversation for a MAJOR overhaul and redesign, it is a SERIOUS failure of an update. . . especially with so many exciting new models out worldwide. And being that the Yaris sold well worldwide, I forsee sales continuing to slump for Toyota as a whole. EVERY toyota model is old, and none of the redesigns have been anywhere close to exciting, and I'm not just talking about aesthetics. Powertrains, suspension, safety. . . it's all the same stuff rehashed.

The big exciting news for Toyota Motor Corp in the next few years? Probably a few more hybrids released (because the Lexus HS is sooooo popular, hahahaha), the Prius repackaged into different bodies (basically different flavors of the same thing), the completely unrevolutionary 2.5L 2AR sees more applications, and the 3.5L V6 gets a 3HP bump in output. I wouldn't expect ANY radical redesigns anytime soon. The FT-86. . . that's one low volume car that is delayed time and time again. By the time it is released, they won't have any choice but to have the MSRP be something ridiculous, as to not have it compete with the tC. And with all the competition, it won't be competitive to the general buying public. A few enthusiasts might rush to buy it, but once the mania wears off, it will probably do poorly as well.

JDMJim

The Yaris/Vitz( SCP chassis) is getting a major redesign soon. body will be sharpened a bit. WHy did the Speedo get moved? because people kept seeing the tach and who cares about that, right? honestly. 99% of the people driving a car don't look at it anyway. But i find it funny how a car can sell really well and a sibling can;t just because of a bodystyle. xB1, people wanted more power. understandable as a boxy car is considered a van and people bought them to haul around a lot of stuff. BUT, they wanted to do with a million HP and 3mpg. xB1 doesn't do that. Toyota Echo has been in the states for a long time using the 1NZ and that car did well even up to todays standards. The 1NZ is still here in the Yaris. The Yaris outsells the Scions where I live. So I KNOW power isn't everything. it's american perception to what a car SHOULD have based on it's design. vanlike? 400ci V-8 that carries 10 poeple. econobox? 90 hp and carries almost nothing. ghetto? anything from korea or big body sedans.

Consider a car a hammer. most everyone doesn't care what it looks like or what it's made of as long as it can drive a nail into something.


right after i post this, I find this form the Auto Salon

djct_watt

^ I know. . . that's what I was talking about. I've seen it already. . . it hit the Japan auto show. Same powertrain is what I was complaining about. The 1NZ is great, but it's OLD and outdated and outmatched by the competition. The style changes are minor, at best. Nobody is going to be rushing out to buy one. And yes, of course a Modellista model is going to look awesome. The standard models are the same flavors of boring. And yes, I own a 5dr Yaris too. . . closest thing I could get to a 2nd gen JDM bB. Cars here are expensive ($USD20k for the Yaris), and I can't justify spending $USD40k on a 2.0L Camry that will get trashed by the roads here.

JDMJim

you overpaid on your Yaris. I got my xD for $17k with the TRD suspension on it. We paid $22k for our Prius even.

Old and outdated doesn't mean bad either. it's stout and reliable. That's what toyota owners want. Not 9K relines and 500hp. That's what makes Toyota boring to me. That's what makes the Hyundai Gencoupe interesting to me. That and why would any money grubbing person pay so much for a FWD car that's boring when you can get a Z33 chassis for $15K? granted it was considered boring by Japans standards.

regardless of the Modellista kit, it just a lip kit. the general lines are obviously better than what there is now.

Tomas

...and then there are those of us who really want a genuine urban utility vehicle - something like the older bB/xB or the newer bB.

We aren't looking for 500hp or swoopy lines, but an extremely competent City Car that simply does exactly what is asked of it, without complaint or hassles.

Seriously, 90% of my driving is in an urban environment - loads of stop-and-go with a max speed of maybe 40 MPH.

Those few times I actually head my box out on the highway, it may not be the best highway cruiser out there, but it gets the job done.*

It's doesn't need zero to 60 in under 4 seconds, it doesn't need "advanced styling," it needs competence, reliability, economy, and lots of easily accessible space in a very small footprint - the Urban Utility Vehicle (UUV) or working City Car.

Every swoopy line, rounded corner, curvy panel simply takes away from the accessibility and amount of usable space in that footprint.

The xB Classic and the xD have roughly the same footprint, the xD has a larger engine.

The xB has more usable interior space with easier access to both passenger and cargo areas. The xB does the UUV job better.

Tom

* Vanilla does get out on the highway, here she is buzzing along on Interstate 5 yesterday evening. An additional 400 HP or great looking styling wouldn't have helped her at all in the job she was doing (and doing well).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FJ0pu16HMA

drviolin

Tom, I could not agree more. There is not another car on the planet that is more space-efficient, competent and reliable, and with such a great personality. I actually prefer the bB/xb1 to the new bB/Materia, simply because it's more boxy!

djct_watt

Dude! I live in Thailand now! Hello! We have HUGE taxes on cars here. I did not overpay on anything. Thats what that location thing means on the left. It's where I am located. That's why I keep repeating, where I am, cars are expensive and the selection sucks, unlike the USA.

drviolin

Some people are a little obtuse and mighty rude at the same time. It's impossible for them to imagine there is a world outside the US, and cars are priced differently in other countries. I paid about as much for a Yaris Verso/Funcargo with a 1.3L (what a clever car!) when I lived in Finland, so there you go.

djct_watt

Not long ago, I was one of those people. . . which is why I try to repeat my words and write clearly, but because my posts are long winded, people tend to miss all the important details. And man, if you paid as much as I did, it sucks doesn't it? I can't imagine spending $USD100k+ (yes to other people, that "$USD" should be a big clue that this is in a foreign country, hence the need to be redundant saying "$USD") on something like a Mercedes or BMW with a 2.3L gutless motor. I had my mind set on a 3 series coupe, but I just can't justify spending that kind of cash on a so-so car. M3? Here? It'd be $USD 200k, and most entry level Italian exotics approach the $USD1M mark. I'm going to go cry in a corner now.

drviolin

Yes, I know. It's pretty ridiculous, especially when you know how much these cars are supposed to cost. I am glad I was able to bring my xB from the US with me this time, but if I ever end up looking for a replacement (which I hope will never happen), it's going to be a painful time.

JDMJim

oh okay, So I'm obtuse now huh? And this person does know about countries outside the U.S. I traveled to many including Thailand. I know about the taxes and such to own a car. So yea....putting $USD didn't catch my eye honestly. Some people just do that cuz this forum has an international audience.

djct_watt

There's also that thingie that says location on the left. But yeah, like I said, my long posts usually get skimmed. Sorry, didn't intend to flame nor am I looking to start a flame war now. /threadjack. Back on topic. . .

JDMJim

neither am i. I don't pay attention to alot of that info cuz so many people doctor it.

BuckNakedBooda

I hate to say this but I would have to add the Honda Element to the description of most space efficient and reliable vehicles that I have ever owned. Even though last summer I traded my 2006 Honda Element EX-P 4x4 for a 2010 Toyota Tacoma Off-Road 4x4, the stuff that I could store in the Element was incredible. I absolutely loved the 64 different ways I could configure the back of the vehicle to haul stuff from boxes to couches.

Just to let you guys know I use to own a 2004 Scion xB which I regret for ever getting rid of but I also currently own a 2009 Scion xB which I love....

Tomas

The Element is another good example, but again, like the xB2, of a totally different class.

Neither is a small "City Car," which is part of the problem.

drviolin

The Element is a good example of a boxy, space-efficient design, but I have heard it's not very economical. And as Tom said, it's in a different class altogether, so a direct comparison would not be appropriate. The xB can be compared directly to the Nissan Cube (from which it actually got its inspiration), but that's about it.

JDMJim

Element is out of production or soon to be. sign of the times

Tomas

Yup. The Honda Element has reached EOL, and I haven't seen any announcements of a replacement. Same for the Honda Pilot.

Both were good machines. Both will be missed.